Author Topic: Restoration has begun!  (Read 15065 times)

Sphe

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Restoration has begun!
« on: July 02, 2003, 23:31:15 »
Hello there. I have just begun the long road to get my 1965 230 Sl running again. It's been sitting in my garage for 7 years, and I was just wondering what I should expect in my future for this project. I've already been working on it for a few days, and after a good cleaning, I found the front rotors to be rusted to the brakes. Any good advice to quickly getting these rotors free? Also, what are the steps to just getting the thing running? I heard there's quite a process to start the engine back up. Note, this car has not be touched for 8 years :o) he he. Thanks for any advice.

rwmastel

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Re: Restoration has begun!
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2003, 06:43:41 »
Sphe,

Welcome to the Group!  I've never had to deal with this, but I've read about it a lot.  Others with experience can provide details and correct my mistakes.

1. I'm not sure what your experience/skill level is.  Review as much info on this web site as you have time to.  Look at the forum and the technical docs.  Use the 'Search' for specific info.  You should have pleanty of time to read as I don't think your car is going anywhere on it's own.   :D

2. Fuel system.  Remove the fuel level sender from the gas tank (via the tunk floor) and look in the tank for rust.  Clean if at all rusty.  Check the fuel filter in the gas tank, it removes from the bottom.  Check/replace any flexable fuel lines throughout the system. Replace the main fuel filter (and canister seal) by the engine.  Don't start the car, but turn the ignition on and measure the fuel flow rate of the electric fuel pump at the return line to the tank.  Check for fuel leaks.

3. Mechanicals.  Replace air filter.  Change the engine oil and filter.  Check to see if the rubber top & bottom filter seals are in the metal canister, replace them.  Change the transmission fluid.  Change the differential fluid.  Replace (flush) the radiator fluid.  Change the brake fluid after you get the brake parts replaced.  Don't forget to replace the rubber brake lines.  There's a way to put a lubricant (engine oil?) in the cylinders to get them slippery.  Then remove spark plugs and hand crank the engine with a wrench to make sure it turns easily.  Check bushing/shaft under tachometer connector in engine for excessive vertical play.

4. Electricals.  Make sure the timing is set as best as possible with the engine off.  Replace spark plugs.  Check resistance of spark plug wires to ensure they are all the same.  Check distributor for excessive play and possibly missing return spring.  Document the numbers from your coil, distributor, etc. in your ignition system and we'll let you know if it is a correct combination.  Test all your lights, radio, horn, windshield wipers, and anything else electrical.  If these don't work, you might have other problems.

This should be enough to get it going.  I'm sure some more experienced people will have different or additional points to make.

Enjoy!

Rodd
1966 230SL Euro
1994 E420
« Last Edit: July 03, 2003, 06:51:55 by rwmastel »
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George Davis

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Re: Restoration has begun!
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2003, 11:15:05 »
I'll add a bit to what Rodd wrote:

Drain out the old gas and put in 5 gallons of fresh premium.  Add enough 2-stroke oil to the gas to get a 25:1 mix and mix it well before putting it in the tank.  Before cranking the motor, let the fuel pump run for a few seconds to get that gas/oil mix to the injection pump.  This is to help lubricate the injection pump internals.  After getting things started, you can just add more gas to dilute the 2-stroke oil out.

Before cranking the engine, remove all spark plugs and put a couple of squirts of motor oil in each cylinder.  Turn the engine over by hand a revolution or 2 just to be sure nothing is seized.  Make sure you turn it in the normal running direction.  Then replace the plugs.

Before you drive the car more than 5 mph, make very sure the brakes are working well.  The seals in the brake system can fail just from sitting too long.  Same with the clutch hydraulic system if it's a manual shift.

Good luck!

George Davis
'69 280 SL Euro manual

Sphe

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Re: Restoration has begun!
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2003, 12:29:09 »
Thanks for all the information! This is all really great (even if I don't know what some of it means he he)! I was just wondering, with this whole slew of info under my belt, what should my logical progression with this car be? Where do I start?
The first thing we did was to get it out of our busted garage, and to clean it off a little bit.
Our next plan is to free the front rotors from the break pads, and clean as much rust off the underside of the car as possible. This is going to take some time. But what next?
Thanks, Eugene.

rwmastel

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Re: Restoration has begun!
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2003, 20:52:19 »
Here's a broader overview, or more general list:

First, did the car run well when it was stored?  If not, then you obviously will have to fix pre-storage problems at some point in the process so keep those in mind.

Second, the car has to stop.  As I once saw written: A car that won't go is a shame, but a car that won't stop is a hazzard.  Don't just seperate the discs and pads, but consider replacing them.  Also replace all the rubber parts in the calipers and the rubber brake lines.

Third, the car will have to go, which means fuel, air, spark, and compression.  Clean out the fuel system, make sure there are no leaks, make sure the electric pump operates to specifications, replace the filters.  Replace the air filter.  Adjust the linkage that controls the air and fuel systems according to posts in this forum (use the 'Search' function).  See below about the ignition components (adjuments and ensuring matching components).  Do a compression test and leak down test on the cylinders if possible.

I would consider that the basics for getting the car started.  Then you get into suspension, steering, alternators, starters, water pumps, the transmission, axles, heaters, and a bunch of other stuff.

If you want to do the basics yourself, you will need manuals:
- Mercedes Shop Manual (aka Big Blue Book or BBB)
- Mercedes 230SL Spare Parts List Manual (edition C)
- Mercedes 230SL Owners Manual
- Haynes Manual for Mercedes 230/250/280 Sedan, Coupe, & Convertible

The BBB should be available on eBay (there are different version, make sure you get the right version).  The Parts List and Owners Manual should be ordered from the MB Classic Center in Germany.  The Haynes manual should be availabe new.

I hope this helps!  I started out knowing nothing about MB's 3 years ago and I have learned a lot from the original Yahoo! W113 Group and now this group (many of the same people).  I learn something new every time I work on my car.  Please do yourself a big favor and read as much of the message threads here as possible.  They have tons of useful information.  Also, off the main page of our site is a link to Technical Documents.  Browse through these (or use the Search), they are a wealth of techical information.  Don't worry, everyone here is very helpful and we'll get that car going together!   :)

Rodd
1966 230SL Euro
1994 E420
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W113SL

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Re: Restoration has begun!
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2003, 08:03:20 »
quote:
Originally posted by Sphe

Hello there. I have just begun the long road to get my 1965 230 Sl running again. It's been sitting in my garage for 7 years, and I was just wondering what I should expect in my future for this project. I've already been working on it for a few days, and after a good cleaning, I found the front rotors to be rusted to the brakes. Any good advice to quickly getting these rotors free? Also, what are the steps to just getting the thing running? I heard there's quite a process to start the engine back up. Note, this car has not be touched for 8 years :o) he he. Thanks for any advice.


W113SL

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Re: Restoration has begun!
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2003, 08:03:53 »
quote:
Originally posted by Sphe

Hello there. I have just begun the long road to get my 1965 230 Sl running again. It's been sitting in my garage for 7 years, and I was just wondering what I should expect in my future for this project. I've already been working on it for a few days, and after a good cleaning, I found the front rotors to be rusted to the brakes. Any good advice to quickly getting these rotors free? Also, what are the steps to just getting the thing running? I heard there's quite a process to start the engine back up. Note, this car has not be touched for 8 years :o) he he. Thanks for any advice.


W113SL

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Re: Restoration has begun!
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2003, 08:42:57 »
quote:
Originally posted by Sphe

Hello there. I have just begun the long road to get my 1965 230 Sl running again. It's been sitting in my garage for 7 years, and I was just wondering what I should expect in my future for this project. I've already been working on it for a few days, and after a good cleaning, I found the front rotors to be rusted to the brakes. Any good advice to quickly getting these rotors free? Also, what are the steps to just getting the thing running? I heard there's quite a process to start the engine back up. Note, this car has not be touched for 8 years :o) he he. Thanks for any advice.




A word to any one who will listen.  never let any car, much les any Mercedes Benz product sit for this prolonged period of time.  The cost of repairing the corroded brakes, Rusty gas tank, and possibly frozen engine and stuck fuel injection pump rack can be extremely hazardous to your checking account.

All of the advise you have been given is spot on.  I would assume you will have rust in your tank, so before you do anything else, pull out the sending unit and peer inside.  If the tank was full of fuel when stored, you may have lucked out.  But surely the fuel has started to revert to varnish so it must be drained and ew fuel installed.  Before starting up the fuel pump, I would also inspect the condition of the fine fuel filter to see if there is any rust or pther particulates in the fuel filter.

If you wish to attempt to start the engine.  First make certain that it is free.  A good bit of advise is to squirt a tiny bit of oil in each cylibder than attempt to turn it over by using a 27MM socket on the front crankshaft bolt. Turn the bolt in a clockwise direction.

If the engine is free, the next thing I would do is turn it over a few more time with the plugs removed to expell the oil so you can expect  the plugs to fire if you attempt to start the engine.

The next thing I would do is the check to see of the fuel injection pump rack is frozen as the car will not run well if at all if that rack is stuck.  At the front of the pump there is a ten mm nut that appears to be attached to a larger shaft directly behind it.  It is a plug that exposes the rack.  You must remove that nut then insert a samll punch and push inward to see if the rack is moving and then returning to its original position.  it should move about 15 mm total travel.

If the rack is free and you can ascertain that the fuel delivery system is not contaminated with rust, you can then replace plugs, points and try to start the engine.

It will most likely difficult to start as the feul injectors may be
stuck and the lines may be air bound.  What I would recommend perhaps before even attempting to start the engine is to lossen each fuel injection line a bit and pump fuel througout until you can see if exiting the area at the injectors.  You may wish to disconnect the coil wire at this time to guard against the engine firing prematurally.

Each injector should squirt a perfectly circular atomized pattern.  You can observe this by disconnecting them from the head and observing gthe spray attern as soemone turns the engine over.  If they donot atomize well, the engine will not run well at all.

You can take them to a fuel injection repair facility and have them pump diesel fuel through them in roder to get them to atomize properly.  I do not knowwaht pressures should be used to do this, but perhaps other readers have their TDM books wioth them and can advise.

If all is well with the delivery system, the injectors, and the gnition system, make certian that the fuel injection linkage is operating freely and not binding.

Keep us informed of your success.

Of course you may have a costly problem at hand with the brakes as well.  But I would start with the engine first to see how eell it runs.  If it does run well and the body didn't suffer too badly during the storage. you may wish to proceed with your project.

If the body is rusty, the engine stuck, and the brakes frozen, you may wish to sell this project as a parts car, as the cost to bring it back may far out pace the end value of the car.

This all depends on how skilfull you are at doing your own work and how inventive you may be at saving dollars on parts, and services.

Good luck and keep us informed,

Pete Lesler

Sphe

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Re: Restoration has begun!
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2003, 13:58:09 »
The front rotors are now free and spinning beautifully!! They spin like they're brand new. The brake pads however are completely crumbled, and are going to have to be replaced. The rest of the brake system is looking pretty good.
-Next step, checking inside of the gas tank and cleaning.
-Then, to put in our old, cracked exhaust manifold, and putting the linkages back together...
-Then... checkin out the engine!!

Sphe

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Re: Restoration has begun!
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2003, 23:12:44 »
Yeeeeah... things didn't go so hot today. Open up gas tank, and it appears that only half of it is rusted. There was old gas in the other half. We'll see whats up tomorrow...

Sphe

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Re: Restoration has begun!
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2003, 15:36:16 »
Progress is slowing down. Hoping to do a number of things on the car today... ended up just draining the gas tank. Baby steps, baby steps...

rwmastel

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Re: Restoration has begun!
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2003, 16:02:30 »
Sphe,
This whole process will take time.  Be patient.  How experienced are you?  Everything I do on my car is a learning process for me and take 4 times as long as it should!!

Rodd
1966 230SL Euro
1994 E420
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Sphe

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Re: Restoration has begun!
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2003, 22:36:33 »
I must say I have a pretty low level of experience. My partner has a ok amount of experience. Lets just say I rely mostly on this forum, a pal or two, and manuals.

Sphe

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Re: Restoration has begun!
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2003, 16:28:24 »
The haynes manual does not specifically address the W113 engine, is it still worth the buy, and is it still useful?

George Davis

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Re: Restoration has begun!
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2003, 10:57:19 »
If you really plan to tear into the car, the Mercedes service manual (aka Big Blue Book, BBB) is the thing to have.  It's pretty detailed and more complete than the Haynes, but can be difficult to understand because the German-to-English translation isn't great.  It's also written for a trained technician, so it leaves out a lot of details that a technician is expected to already know.

The Haynes manual is less complete, but it's still useful, especially for less experienced DIYers.  It's a good place to start before graduating to the BBB.

George Davis
'69 280 SL Euro manual

Sphe

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Re: Restoration has begun!
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2003, 16:13:02 »
Hello again everyone! The car is coming along really great! We have cleaned up the car a LOT, removed the gas tank, replaced the exhaust manifold, replaced the oil and gas filters, replaced the oil, and just started putting oil in the heads. We also found out two wonderful things today. That's that the engine isn't frozen, and the clutch isn't frozen! We're going to continue putting oil in the heads for the next two days, and rocking the car back and forth. Already the motors is rotating a little more than two inches! Things are coming along awesome, and we should have the car movin around within a month!

rwmastel

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Re: Restoration has begun!
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2003, 10:34:45 »
Sphe,
Great job!  Keep taking it slow, progress in little "baby steps".  I know you've already started, but make sure you change ALL the fluids:

Brake fluid
Radiator fluid
Power steering fluid
Transmission fluid
Motor oil (you already did this)
Differential oil
F.I. Pump oil
Fuel (you already did this)

Also, make sure all your grease fittings take grease.

Am I forgetting any fluid/lubrication points of interest?

Rodd
1966 230SL Euro
1994 E420
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Cees Klumper

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Re: Restoration has begun!
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2003, 12:36:50 »
The Haynes manual does address the 113 engine, except that it concerns the 280 variant. Still, this does not deviate tremendously from your 230 SL and, besides, you may not want to dig in that deep? The Haynes manual, in other words, is a very good resource for any Pagoda owner to have. The BBB is also excellent. It is available from the Classic Center (although I believe it may not be available in English for the earlier sixties models including the 230SL) BUT it may be available on CD from the US Classic center nonetheless.
Also - please don't overlook the resource available here on the homepage (the "Technical Articles") which cover much of the practical issues not mentioned (sufficiently) in any  of the manuals. You will need to do some digging through, but it is a great knowledge base.
Cees Klumper
1969 Mercedes 280 SL automatic
1968 Ford Mustang 302 V8
1961 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Coupe 1600
1962 FIAT 1500S OSCA convertible
1972 Lancia Fulvia Coupe 1.3
1983 Porsche 944 2.5
1990 Ford Bronco II

Cees Klumper

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Re: Restoration has begun!
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2003, 12:40:18 »
Eugene - any chance of you posting a photo of you and the car?
Cees Klumper
1969 Mercedes 280 SL automatic
1968 Ford Mustang 302 V8
1961 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Coupe 1600
1962 FIAT 1500S OSCA convertible
1972 Lancia Fulvia Coupe 1.3
1983 Porsche 944 2.5
1990 Ford Bronco II

Sphe

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Re: Restoration has begun!
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2003, 09:01:08 »
You guys want photos? Here they are! Just hooked up my digi-piece. Now now, no nay-saying. This project will get completed! (It helps when your dad does his own body work, and paint jobs).

Download Attachment: backleft.JPG
55.92 KB

Download Attachment: frontright.JPG
52.49 KB

Download Attachment: interior.JPG
56.91 KB

Sphe

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Re: Restoration has begun!
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2003, 16:11:25 »
Man, today was a good day. Replaced the exhaust manifold with a hole in it, hooked up all the linkages just like they should be, and then was able to completely turn over the engine! We turned it over about 30 times. Good day, good day.

-One thing though. Out of boredom we decided to put a little water in the radiator. When we put water in the container, after about 3 seconds, the water quickly came pouring out a hole onto the ground. The hole is located halfway down the side of the engine on the passanger side. It appears to be threaded. Any ideas to what this might be?

ja17

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Re: Restoration has begun!
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2003, 17:56:48 »
Hello Eugene,
That threaded hole is probably where then threaded  block drain plug goes.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

Sphe

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Re: Restoration has begun!
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2003, 00:36:09 »
Augh! I can't find the stupid plug! I have two plugs that seem like they should fit, but they're just soooo slightly too big. Where can I get one of these plugs? Or is it just a certain size screw with a washer?

Aside from this, we're almost to our goal of the summer. Many of the fluids are still good, and we're ready to start the car once we get our tank back and put it on the car. But before that, we have to replace the rear panel, which is coming along... hopefully by the end of the week!

ja17

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Re: Restoration has begun!
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2003, 21:19:40 »
Hello Eugene,
The plug is a finer thread than the usual metric (M 14X1, 5X12 DIN 961) the MB part no. is 000961 014022. The wrench size is 22mm. This should be easily available and inexpensive from the dealer or donor sedan.
An aluminum seal ring is also needed with the plug MB #636 997 02 44.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

Download Attachment: P1010145.jpg
57.83 KB
« Last Edit: August 12, 2003, 21:27:18 by ja17 »
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

Sphe

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Re: Restoration has begun!
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2003, 13:46:45 »
Thanks for the pic! It was one of the plugs we had already tried, but didn't want to go in, I went back to it, and it went it after a lil while. Back plate is almost on! Hopefully will start the car within a week.