Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Electrical and Instruments => Topic started by: jameshoward on July 25, 2015, 10:59:11
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I put up a previous thread asking what others have done to get address the weak - and dangerous in my experience - tail lights. That thread is here: http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=22822.0
I ordered a pair of LEDs to replace the standard bulbs. You would need to order BA9S LEDs in white. I ordered these: http://www.advancedfactors.co.uk/233-ba9s-t4w-led-number-plate-lamp-pair-40353-p.asp
Steve - the owner of AF - is a really helpful chap and sent me the bulbs to try. They fit perfectly. Here are a few photos that may help others. Of note, and as was pointed out in the original 'research' thread, the inside of my lights were filthy, as were the bulbs. I cleaned up all contacts with fine wet and dry.
I haven't tried the LEDs at night, but in the daylight the difference is stark, as I hope the photos show. Price incl shipping for a pair of LEDs was £9. The only thing I'd add is that one should probably buy these things from a recognised seller, which is why I used Steve. The internet is full of LEDs, CRE bulbs, etc, but many aren't tested or regulated and don't meet Euro standards. For a few pounds extra, you'll get something that works safely.
You will note from the photos that the LED is a touch taller than the OEM bulb. Nevertheless, it just fits in. Finally, for the foreigners, if you have a 230 with the same light configuration as mine (I understand later cars have a less nonsensical set up) and so purchase from another supplier, note that you need an LED that emits light from around the side of the bulb as well as out of the top - if that makes sense. The photos make the point more coherently!
;D
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A few more pics.
Noting that these are taken on the rarest of days during the UK summer - one where the sun is actually shining - these photos show the difference between the two bulbs. The first is the LED, the second the OEM bulb. The third pic shows the OEM set up.
I'll take some pics this evening and offer a final verdict. I'm pretty sure it's the way ahead. The only problem is it's addictive...so many bulbs!
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Hello James,
looks like a nice upgrade. Please add your pics and text here:
http://www.sl113.org/wiki/Electrical/TailLights
and here:
http://www.sl113.org/wiki/Electrical/Trunklights
Thanks!
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Hi James. Nice upgrade I am finishing off LEDing the dash and will look at the rear lights too. Seems like LED 5 is the right amount of diodes - 4 around and 1 on top.
I just dont like taking the tail light assemblies on & off too many times as I fear cracking & breaking plastic.
BTW - clean out the inside of your bulb unit - it looks a little dusty!
cheers
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I put up a previous thread asking what others have done to get address the weak - and dangerous in my experience - tail lights. That thread is here: http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=22822.0
I ordered a pair of LEDs to replace the standard bulbs. You would need to order BA9S LEDs in white. I ordered these: http://www.advancedfactors.co.uk/207-5630-smd--cree-combo-for-reverse-lights--front-207-type-sidelights-pack-of-2-5659-p.asp
Hello James,
is this really the bulb you installed, it is a BA15S! :o
Or did you change perhaps the wiring in your bulb holder and put it where the back-up bulb normally sits? ???
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Hi Alfred,
It seems that you may have highlighted a difference between bulbs. I fitted BA9S. They fit perfectly well and work superbly. I have made no alterations at all to the lamp holder. Just a straight forward plug and play.
However, it may be that the BA9S is the same as a BA15S?? I have no idea if that's the case. All I can say is that my BA9S fits and works.
Sorry I can't be of more help. Perhaps someone who knows more about this sort of thing will be able to help clear this up for us?
JH
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Hi James,
good to know that you were able to get a BA9S with side beam because a BA15S is bigger and would not fit.
Unfortunately, the link to "advancedfactors" brings up a BA15S and when one searches the site for a BA9S no LED comes up only a regular incandescent.
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Hi Alfred,
Thanks. Not sure what happened to the link. I may have changed, or I could have fat fingered it. I've done a search for BA9S on the site and have found the bulb I purchased. I've updated the link in the initial post below, which is correct for now at least.
JH
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Thanks James, that is the one, my fat fingers could not find it!
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After reading the post regarding upgrading the poor light from the tail lights. Thought I would give this a go.
I initially tried the LED bulbs detailed above. The bulbs are taller than the originals, and only just fit. In fact
They touch the plastic lens. Tightening the lamp case back in position produced some worrying noises from the plastic.
If I would have continued tightening, the plastic lens would have cracked.
Once fitted, although brighter I was not really happy with the bright centre light source. So I set out to come up with
A solution that would not only give me a brighter tail light, but would also illuminate the full width of the lens.
The solution came from the use of LED tape; one strip attached either side of the original bulb.
Connections from the strips were then soldered to the bulb.
Below some photos of the results. I should have taken some photos of the process, but it did not cross my mind
Until I had finished. I am very happy with the way they turned out.
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There must be a difference in the bulbs. Mine are taller than the correct filament bulb, but they are nowhere near touching the plastic lens. It was one thing about the change that concerned me most.
Your solution looks good.
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Thanks James. I bought the led bulbs from your link. One side fitted okay, but very very close to the lens. The other side
Touched the lens a lot. Thinking about it now, it may be the seal around the metal bulb holder was old and compressed flatter
Allowing the bulb to close to the lens.
Anyone else trying led bulbs, be very carful when tightening the metal bulb holder.
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I have found a LED bulb that will fit the space in the reflector cavity quite nicely and does not touch the lens. It is sold by JDM Astar and puts out 200 Lumen!
https://www.jdmastar.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=143&search=JDM+ASTAR-BA9S-5730-6SMD&description=true
The price for one pair ($12) is reasonable and shipping within the USA is free.
The company also sells a slightly less bright LED (150 Lumen) for a very good price, 4-pack for $10:
https://www.jdmastar.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=242&search=JDM+ASTAR-BA9S-5630-6SMD&description=true
I installed the brighter one in the tail light socket and the less bright one in the clearance light socket.
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Looking around the site, it seems that there's no single spot for external LED bulb upgrades - there's posts going back to 2008 on upgrades but nothing regarding LEDs in the tech manual.
If anyone has any more up to date/LED info that can be added to the below, please post copy/paste the relevant line and upgrades they've used. Any other modifications that might be required (eg relays) would be useful. As Jameshoward says, this increasingly a matter of safety (and not getting our valuable cars shunted)
Fronts (euro) - from tech manual
The main Headlight bulb is a 40/45 watt non-halogen (Bilux) bulb that can be upgraded today. The correct replacement therefore carries the designation "Halogen BILUX-AS-HALOROAD R2 12V P45t" (available from Osram or Philips) and is a special 45/40 watt halogen substitue for greater light output and longer life. It's very similar to the regular (European) 60/55 watt H4 halogen bulbs but with a slightly lower output (barely visible) and with the correct P45t socket for the old-style mirrors used on the W113s. The bulb has three projecting connectors to fit the car’s internal connector.
The Parking Light is a miniature bayonet bulb T4W on a BA9s base. An upgrade is available as 3886X to give more light. Replacements include: 3893, 57, 57X, 1891, 1893, 1895, 78223.
The 18 Watt Turn Signal bulb can be upgraded to a P3497 higher intensity bulb.
The Fog Light bulb is a 35 watt bulb on a BA20s base.
The Night Light (Clearance) bulb is a 3 Watt bulb on a BA-15s base. An upgrade is available to a more modern R5W bulb.
Rears (230) - can anyone clarify if the holders are the same for the later cars? Tech Manual has both clusters and they look very different but no clarity on the actual bulbs/holders)
Brake light: 18W / Base: BA15s
Tail light: 4W / Base: BA9s
Parking/clearance light: 4W / Base: BA9s
Back-up light: 15W / Base: BA15s
Turn signal: 18W / Base: BA15s
Love the idea above of the LED strip for the tail light.
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James,
I am making my way through the LED maze at the moment and hope to have a topic at PUB that will also be documented in the Technical Manual. The issue I am having is determining the wiring and appropriate relay to make the lights blink at the normal speed. As most know, LED lights draw less voltage, the system thinks the bulbs are not working and thus blink fast to indicate the need to change. Once I figure this out I will post more. Searched the site and did not find anything on the relay. If others can find a reference, please post the link.
Best,
Tom
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Tom,
I am not sure why you missed the info in the Technical Manual but it shows what kind of relay you need for LED bulbs:
Electronic LED Flasher Relays have no minimum load-12VDC. They eliminate the need for load resistors, turn signals will flash at normal rate with or without LED bulbs. That is, they can also be used with regular incandescent bulbs or a mix of incandescent and LED bulbs.
There are several versions available, usually designed for either European (CF13GL-02), Japanese or American cars. For Pagodas it is best to buy a "European version" because the pins are marked similar to the Kaehler or Wehrle electronic relays pictured above.
https://www.sl113.org/wiki/Electrical/FlasherRelay
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Rears (230) - can anyone clarify if the holders are the same for the later cars? Tech Manual has both clusters and they look very different but no clarity on the actual bulbs/holders)
James,
not sure whether I understand your question. On 230SL cars there was only one type of bulb holder. The same holder was also used on 250SL and on early 280SL. Later 280SL holders (with the introduction of the amber turn signal lens) had two diodes incorporated and all four bulb bases were the same (BA15s).
It is all here: https://www.sl113.org/wiki/Electrical/TailLights
I haven't added any info on LED bulbs because there availability and quality is changing almost monthly. However, it is easy to search for possible LED bulbs using the bulb base as search function. But keep in mind that LED in the turn signal position require a LED relay!
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Thanks Tom - I'm sure that'll be a really useful PUB session
Meanwhile, yesterday I got the following from a UK supplier...
"During last year I invested in designing and developing not only some new and powerful LED bulbs but also some LED panel lights which are self adhesive and plug into any one of a range of bulb adaptors "
Thanks Alfred - I did look at the tech manual but managed to miss that bit :P
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Thanks Alfred - are the holders/clusters the same configuration across all the cars? ie, same bulb (size/holder) pointing the same way?
What do you mean with clusters/holders? These parts: https://www.sl113.org/wiki/uploads/Electrical/Tail_Light_280SL.jpg ?? ???
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Thx - see above.! :o
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James,
you had asked previously whether the bulbs point the same way.
Keep in mind that they are sitting inside a reflector half dome that wraps around them. Daniel Stern, the lighting guru, pointed out to me that it is not necessary to find an LED bulb with the individual emitters sitting on the top, side emitting bulbs work also. But I haven't compared a top and side emitter directly to verify his assertion.
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Be very careful guys with using Leds , i have done the "upgrade" and was warned by followers that my lights were not up to spec.
Altough at first view standing behind the car the leds looked good , but being compromised due to the limited viewangle ,i went back to original bulbs.
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That was one of the reasons i went with my LED strips each side of the orignal bulb.
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I took the plunge with some LEDs from BetterCarLighting. Gil was very helpful and they emit out of the top and sides of the unit and so use all the standard reflector. They fit into the existing bulb holders. These are a red "bulb". I also checked with my insurer about the fitting and supplier and they were fine with this "maintenance, not modification": I'd hate for them to say I'd invalidated my insurance with non-spec brake lights.
Two before and Two after fitting.
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Hi James,
Any pictures or specs of the actual "led bulb" used ?,and have you fitted to tail/stop and reversing ?
Are you planning to do the dash lamps ?
Thanks
Paul
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Paul
Tail/rear lights
http://www.bettercarlighting.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=426
Brake Lights
http://www.bettercarlighting.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=330
Reversing lights
http://www.bettercarlighting.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=341
Was not going to do dash lamps
There IS stuff out there about bulbs needing to be E marked/type approved so if you are going down this route, make sure your insurer knows what you're doing and is fine with it (so as not to invalidate insurance...)
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Due to the unique characteristics of LED light, a white LED lamp shining through a colored lens may actually appear dimmer than the white incandescent lamp that was replaced. If you are doing this replacement (an upgrade that I highly encourage), be sure to match the color of the LED lamp to the color of the lens through which it will be viewed, e.g., red with red, amber with amber, etc. For high quality LED products and unsurpassed customer service I recommend https://www.superbrightleds.com/
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Thanks James,
We are returning from Holland tonight, and then shortly off to Ireland.
I feel a winter lighting project. Coming on.....
Paul
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ejboyd
This is the advice I got so I have red brake/tail LEDs and warmwhite reverse lights
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Yes, make sure you use a red colored LED. In general, you want to use the same color LED as is the lens color. If you use a white LED behind a red lens, the color turns out more pink. The red LED behind a red lens really pops!