Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dondraperdfw on February 01, 2024, 17:02:47
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Hello Folks... Newbie here. I feel the time has come for me to own a Pagoda. I own 109sl, 300 sel 6.3 and a 450sel 6.9 and a few other modern Benzes. Passionate about this brand.
This particular one caught my eye
https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/mi24/miami/lots/r0027-1967-mercedes-benz-250-sl-pagoda/1425257/photos
What do folks think about it.
One thing that bothers me is that it not in it's original color. How do pagoda collectors view that?
Any other comments or critique of this car?
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Gut reaction is that seems like a load of (reserve) for a non- original colour. Stunning though it is.
Pics...
The firewall pad looks like I put it on. And I am useless.
Minor thing, the wing mirrors should be tallest part outermost (easy to revolve but you want a critique).
Nose on view, the battery tray on the right behind the radiator grille should be "black" so you don't see it. Imagine the car white and you'll see what I mean.
Rear view, the trim under the licence plate has two holes. They're not standard and an easy job to replace that part to "finish" the car, someone didn't
Tye trunk lid isn't straight (horizontal panel gap)
Steering wheel shot - the carpet up above the clutch pedal is loose, and looks like the under dash panel is missing
Dash wood loks nice and shiny
The plate riveted to the engine block looks out of place - I thought the numbers were always stamped on the block. But I am often wrong
What are the holes on the inner wing infront of the radiator expansion tank
Trunk carpet looks lovely but don't think it will have left the factory that way
I like the upholstered trunk, makes the car look nicely finished, but not original. And as for the lining of the trunk lid...
The tires are not exactly top spec - they'll do a turn but likely a cheaper option
I've never been in a car with A/C but the underdash unit looks too modern to me - may have been nicely trimmed and refinished making it look better than the original, but don't think that would have been what it looked like originally.
It may be a stunning place to sit and and a great drive, and you could not really restore one for less, but you might be able to do it better! That said, there's a load on here who'd argue an early 250 is the car to have
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Gut reaction is that seems like a load of (reserve) for a non- original colour. Stunning though it is.
There is no reserve.
Pics...
The firewall pad looks like I put it on. And I am useless.
Minor thing, the wing mirrors should be tallest part outermost (easy to revolve but you want a critique). Passenger is correct, driver's needs spun around.
Nose on view, the battery tray on the right behind the radiator grille should be "black" so you don't see it. Imagine the car white and you'll see what I mean.
Rear view, the trim under the licence plate has two holes. They're not standard and an easy job to replace that part to "finish" the car, someone didn't
Tye trunk lid isn't straight (horizontal panel gap)
Steering wheel shot - the carpet up above the clutch pedal is loose, and looks like the under dash panel is missing Why is the steering wheel shot?
Dash wood looks nice and shiny Too shiny, I would say. Should be a matte finish, right?
The plate riveted to the engine block looks out of place - I thought the numbers were always stamped on the block. But I am often wrong The numbers are stamped on the block, as well as on this plate
What are the holes on the inner wing infront of the radiator expansion tank The original function of these holes has been debated on these forums before. I believe they should have rubber plugs in them.
Trunk carpet looks lovely but don't think it will have left the factory that way Yes, nice touch on the carpet. Would like to see if there's rust underneath.
I like the upholstered trunk, makes the car look nicely finished, but not original. And as for the lining of the trunk lid... I've never seen the trunk upholstered like that. Didn't even notice the black side upholstery until you mentioned it. I've never seen the inside of the lid "decorated" like that, either! Interesting choices by somebody.
The tires are not exactly top spec - they'll do a turn but likely a cheaper option
I've never been in a car with A/C but the underdash unit looks too modern to me - may have been nicely trimmed and refinished making it look better than the original, but don't think that would have been what it looked like originally. Yes, I don't know what's up with that A/C unit under the dash. Maybe a standard one upholstered, considering the trunk's treatment.
It may be a stunning place to sit and and a great drive, and you could not really restore one for less, but you might be able to do it better! Yes, you can probably find a car restored to greater originality standards, but you should just see how the auction goes here. Might be worth buying for less than 6 figures? There are astute auction watchers and market trackers here.
That said, there's a load on here who'd argue an early 250 is the car to have Yes, it is the "early" style 250, so the trim looks like a 230 and lots of people like that. The radio has fat 280-style knobs, hopefully the dash opening wasn't cut wider for a 280-sized radio. The 5-speed is great, just hope it doesn't break in the future as parts are very hard to get. It's a French car, maybe some yellow headlight bulbs are in order!
Dondraperdfw,
Welcome to the Group! Glad you found us before buying. We love to educate members to help them make better purchasing decisions. I think JamesL did a very good job of finding the talking points, and many others will chime in. I put comments in-line with James' comments.
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Totally agree on all counts with James and Rodd. Whoever did the restoration took a lot of liberties and it’s certainly not an accurate one: burl wood, headrests, finishing of trunk, etc. The colors, interior choices etc make it look like an amalgamation of several variants (230, 250 and 280 SL’s) with nothing being truly correct for any. The A/C unit is one retailed by Buds Benz to resemble a FrigiKing. Don’t know how good it works. I think the 250 came with dealer installed Kuhlmeister units.
Knowing it’s a RM auction, it’ll go for top dollar. If you just want one to enjoy, ok. But if you’re in least concerned about authenticity or have a desire to show it, I think you can find better options. You’ll just need to be patient.
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sorry for hijacking your post but maybe my 230SL is smth you are looking for:
https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id=371053841 (https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id=371053841)
price negotiable
Sead
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Rodd, thanks
"Steering wheel shot" was a reference to the photo of the steering wheel... :D
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Thank you folks. Appreciate the feedback.
Auctions tend to bring out these glitzy cars that show well in an auction because a lot of what people bid on is the emotion and what they see.
There was this on on Barrett Jackson last week
https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1964-MERCEDES-BENZ-230SL-ROADSTER-271352
Fenders were all new, old ones were cut up because of rust and new ones were put in. Fenders were purchased as spare parts and imported from Germany. Showed really well though
I want to add one Pagoda to my collection but it has to be a top notch example, restored and original
Preferably an optional 5 speed ZF one.
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There's those that would say you could have restored OR original, but not both.
This car is certainly restored, not sure how well
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I want to add one Pagoda to my collection but it has to be a top notch example, restored and original
Restored and original are opposite things. It's only original once. Maybe you want restored and factory correct. Members here are a wealth of information regarding originality, correctness. It's amazing.
I believe there are a couple excellent Pagoda specialists in the DFW area who post in these forums occasionally.
I hope everything in your nice collection is getting driven regularly.
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That steering wheel looks like it was painted to match the interior. It may have been black originallly (see the chip bottom left) And the ridges are gone.
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On the RMSotheby’s car, to me, both in the front angle photo and the side photo, the driver’s looks like it is hung a bit low.
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This looks like the car for sale at Speedart Motorsports a while back. Was listed forever. I had done some research at the time - it was sold at RM in 2019 for $145K. Then listed at Speedart for $250K last year. I eventually found someone who knew the car well. If this is the same one, all he could say to me was “stay away from this one”. Wish I knew more than that!
Super newbie here who loves this site. In fact, it’s my first post. My new to me Pagoda is getting some work done and hopefully will be ready for spring. Fingers crossed. I’ll be sure to “officially” post when she’s ready to roll :)
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Looks to me speedo and rev counter not 100 percent positioned.
upholstery dashboard not done perfect.
paint chip behind rear right wheel arch and looks to me with some filler...
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I totally agree with the comments. I would stay miles away from this 250SL, especially at that pricing estimate.
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Dondraperdfw,
I would take serious look at Sead's car, very legit. Know a restorer who has seen it and was extremely impressed.
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I have a 250 SL from March 1967 and for a long time I have been wondering how many versions of Pagoda seats there were?
The backrest in my chair is thinner and probably not suitable for mounting a headrest
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A number of nits, some easy to fix (no subframe mounts present, no hood bumpers, those kind of things)
Tool kits are not correct
Much more concerning - check the door fit on the driver's side especially noticeable on photo 10 of 44
Hood gaps (in addition to the trunk gaps James L notes)
Wheel wells should be body color
Hood hinges are not painted and should be
Also the hood catch point in the center of the firewall should be painted body color
Heater levers are a mismatch. The ones on the top are correct for, but the bottom two are the rubber replacements seen in the later US cars.
One item that also caught my eye is the fit of the glove box door - I think this may have the best fit I have yet seen on a Pagoda!
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Super newbie here who loves this site. In fact, it’s my first post. My new to me Pagoda is getting some work done and hopefully will be ready for spring. Fingers crossed. I’ll be sure to “officially” post when she’s ready to roll :)
Welcome to the Group! Do you have the only Pagoda in Alberta? :D
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I have a 250 SL from March 1967 and for a long time I have been wondering how many versions of Pagoda seats there were?
The backrest in my chair is thinner and probably not suitable for mounting a headrest
There were a number of changes to the seats over the years, but all seats can accept head rests, have a look on here
https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=3040.0
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As I've said many times before, there are plenty of good restorers out there; there are few good Pagoda restorers.
This looks like it's been done by the former.
It's a nice car that looks like it will give a new owner lots of pleasure unless they subject it to the scrutiny of anyone who can spot the ireggularities......
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sorry for hijacking your post but maybe my 230SL is smth you are looking for:
https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id=371053841 (https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id=371053841)
price negotiable
Sead
Dondraperdfw,
I would take serious look at Sead's car, very legit. Know a restorer who has seen it and was extremely impressed.
Yes, Sead has a very nice car for sale.
Another member has this for sale.
https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=37178.0
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It's a comfortable car, but the design always attracts me more. Buying them at auction can be a risky business. I remember a few years ago, there was a slightly high-profile case when a 1964 Mercedes-Benz 230 SL was sold at a Bonhams auction for $700,000.Later it turned out that rust was everywhere
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Werhettes,
Welcome to the Group! I see this is your first post. If you feel so inclined, you can introduce yourself here:
https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=529.0
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Welcome to the Group! Do you have the only Pagoda in Alberta? :D
Haha I sure hope not but there can’t be many! :)
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Sold for 104k.