Bosch distributors

[JOS]

Does anyone know what is the difference between the two distributors listed below?  
 
  - 1966 230 SL, Distributor's #0231116046.
  - 1967 230 SL, Distributor's #0231116051.
 
Can they be interchanged?

[Benz Dr.]

I think so. Not all that much difference with only a slightly slower advance curve.  I'll check to make sure.

Dan Caron
SL Barn

Daniel G Caron

[Albert-230SL]

quote:Originally posted by JOS


Does anyone know what is the difference between the two distributors listed below?  
 
  - 1966 230 SL, Distributor's #0231116046.
  - 1967 230 SL, Distributor's #0231116051.
 
Can they be interchanged?

Hi JOS,

Difference is important: 046 works with vacuum advance, and 051 works with vacuum retard. To combine a "vac. retard" distributor with a "vac. advance" port isn't good ! Both must match.

First and second distributor "types" for 230 SL were with vacuum advance (vac. port on top of the throttle body, as in this picture):

Bosch reference numbers:
First: VJUR 6 BR 49
Second: JFUR6 0231 116 046 or JFUR6 0231 116 050

Third and fourth distributor "types" for 230 SL were with vacuum retard (vac. port on the lower part of the throttle body):
Third: JFUR6 0231 116 047
Fourth: JFUR6 0231 116 051

- Each of the four types has different settings



This is the complete list of distributor and throttle body numbers, depending on the engine:

--- 230 SL UP TO ENGINE 10786 (manual 10/20), and 2990 (auto. 12/22): VACUUM ADVANCE.
- Distributors (Bosch references): VJUR 6 BR 49, 0231 116 046, 0231 116 050 (Former MB part number for 046/050: 000 158 95 01)
Note: Bosch 0231 116 046/050 is now replaced by 0231 185 007, 0227 100 911 (Current MB part number: 002 158 35 01)
- Throttle body (MB Ref.) 000 140 39 53


--- 230 SL FROM ENGINE 10787 (10/20) and 2991 (12/22): VACUUM RETARD.
- Distributors (Bosch Ref.): 0231 116 047, 0231 116 051.
Note: Bosch 0231 116 051 was replaced by 0231 185 009
- Throttle body up to engine 14471(manual) and 5668(auto): 000 140 49 53 (replaced by 000 140 55 53 with some pipes and clamps).
- Throttle body from engine 14472(manual) and 5669(auto): 000 140 55 53

Regards,


Albert de la Torre Chavalera
Barcelona (Catalunya/Spain)
Feb.'64 230 SL Euro 113042-10-002432

[ja17]

Hello Albert,
Thanks for all the good info!

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[Naj ✝︎]

Albert,
Thanks for the very detailed info.
Do you know what the difference is on the respective distributor caps?
Parts numbers for each are different and holding them side by side it seems there is no difference. I thought the HT lead posts maybe differently located but this is not apparent by looking at them.
naj


65 230SL
68 280SL

[Albert-230SL]

quote:Originally posted by naj

Do you know what the difference is on the respective distributor caps?

Hi Naj,

I'm sorry, but I don't know the difference on the distributor caps.

That info comes from some research I did when I suspected that my car hadn't the proper distributor... and I discovered it was running with a vac.retard distributor (051) together with a vac.advance throttle body. Now it has the proper vac.advance distributor, and the difference is noticeable! But I bought the whole new distributor, so I don't know about its cap.

Regards

Albert de la Torre Chavalera
Barcelona (Catalunya/Spain)
Feb.'64 230 SL Euro 113042-10-002432

[merrill]

Albert,

so, I have a 0231116051 distributor on my 66 230 sl motor #
127 981 1200 4199  which I think is correct per the info you provided below.  (vac port on lower throttle body)

based on that what is the correct timing for my car?
the vac retard is about 11 deg.

should I set the timing with vacuum line connected at 30 det BTDC at 3000 RPM?

currently I have a slight ping upon acelleration, timing retarded to 26 deg btdc


Matt
Austin Tx
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230

[jameshoward]

With all this talk of distributors of late, I have a question upon which I would really appreciate a view or two. And it's really simple.

I have the 051 dissy, but having stripped and rebuilt it I am not sure that the vacuum retard works properly. I say this because to push in the linkage arm takes quite a bit of effort. Can someone with the same model tell me how easy they can move the plate to which the linkage arm attaches? I fear mine may be jammed somewhat as one has to push reasonably hard to make it move. Is this correct?

JH

[jameshoward]

Further to my post below, I am sure something isn't correct.

Having just been to the car, if I disconnect the distributor vacuum line at idle, it does affect the running; I think it speeded up the idle but there is a clear change.  

However, when I run the car at 3000 rpm using a timing light, and then disconnect the line, there is no change at all. (Timing is 3000 rpm at about 27 degress)

Doesn't this seem wrong? Surely there should be some change if I disconnect the line at 3000rpm?

Any ideas?

James

[Naj ✝︎]

James,
 

quote:I have the 051 dissy, but having stripped and rebuilt it I am not sure that the vacuum retard works properly. I say this because to push in the linkage arm takes quite a bit of effort. Can someone with the same model tell me how easy they can move the plate to which the linkage arm attaches? I fear mine may be jammed somewhat as one has to push reasonably hard to make it move. Is this correct?

I think your dizzy is working correctly. The vacuum cell 'pulls' on the points plate - not push, hence the difficulty.

Disconnecting the vac line advances the timing at idle and the engine runs smoother, just like it should.

BIG question remains:
Why retard the timing at all?
What is acheived?

naj

68 280SL

[Benz Dr.]

With ignition retard there's vacuum at the distributor only at idle and it's pretty much gone by 1,200 RPM. The reason they used vacuum retard is because you have maxiumum vacuum at idle even though you really only need about 5 - 6 inches to pull the advance plate to the zero position. As long as you have a vacuum signal it will pull it back to zero every time - it's a better system.
 Removing the vacuum line at 3,000 RPM will have no affect on timing with a 051 type unit becuse there is no vacuum in the line at this speed. However,if the vacuum retard portion of your distributor isn't even working then you will only have mechanical advance and about 20 degrees total. It WILL have an effect on a vacuum advance unit if you pull the line off because the vacuum builds up as you increase RPM's until maxium vacuum is reached. Again, the vacuum unit starts to move and is fully advanced long before the mechanical portion advances to full.

On the later cars vacuum is present at all times and a switch shuts it on or off depending on RPM and engine temps. On these units the vacuum controls the advance more than the early units. On a 051 you will have about 20 degrees mechanical and 10 degrees vacuum control. On the later 061 and 062 units it's more like 20 degrees vacuuum and 10 degrees mechanical. On these units vacuum control plays a larger part in terms of polution control systems and it has to work for the engine to run at its full potential. These units actually swing over into the ATDC by 3 or 4 degrees.

Dan Caron's
 SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
 slbarn.mbz.org
  1 877 661 6061

[J. Huber]

Hey Dan. When you rebuild various distributors, are ther some that are more difficult to find parts for than others, or do they all use the same basic innerds? More to the point: would you have any trouble rebuilding one of the early versions? (VJUR 6 BR 49)... Thanks.

And just out of curiosity -- Albert or anyone know when the switch was made from the VJUR to the JFUR. (and while I am at it -- would a JFUR ...46 work on a car with a VJUR?)

James
63 230SL

[Naj ✝︎]

Hello, James,

Late parts books show the 046 as 'the' distributor for the vacuum advance cars. These were superceded to the alli bodied 0 231 185 007.

So, I suspect an 046 would work fine on your car, but we'll wait for the experts to confirm. (I have been known to lead members down the garden path before....) :oops:

naj

68 280SL

[Benz Dr.]

Well, aside from the rebuild kit there really are no parts available for older units. I sometimes make parts or try and fix what I can.
If the main shaft is pitted I don't try and fix that so I will replace it with a better one. They're made from very hard metal and really don't wear but will rust which forms pits making the shaft smaller. The cam will get loose on the top part of the main shaft usually from lack of lubrication. This is most comon on the later 061 and 062 units where no one ever oils the felt wick under the rotor. These units have CD ignition so the points last a long time. This turned out to be the death of most of them due to extreme wear. I peen the top shaft to make it bigger and close up as much play as I can. I recently fixed a 300 SL distributor that way.

Every unit has basically the same parts. The size of the flyweights changes the advance curve and I keep all sorts of bits and pieces around from old distributors to make repairs. I never throw anything away....EVER..

Dan Caron's
 SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
 slbarn.mbz.org
  1 877 661 6061

[al_lieffring]

Dan

If I understand this thread correctly, on my late style (Dec 65) 230 engine #011942 with the vacuum port below the throttle plate and a Bosch 051 distributor, I should have the stop screw for the throttle plate set to where there IS vacuum in the port at idle, not at throttle tip in like on the vacuum advance distributors.

I currently have the stop screw adjusted to where there is not vacuum at idle and it comes on at throttle tip in.
 
Do I need to change it?
 
If this is the case it could explain my stumbling on cold start at take off from a stop unless I have the timing set to 36deg at 3000rpm.


Al Lieffring
66 230Sl
New blue top just arrived
new gas tank on order

[Benz Dr.]

The 051 is vacuum retard meaning there should be full vacuum going to the distributor at idle. If there is no vacuum signal you can remove the throttle plate and file a small amount from the side of the throttle plate that is covering the hole in the housing. This is rare but it can happen.

Dan Caron's
 SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
 slbarn.mbz.org
  1 877 661 6061