Speaking of firewall pads

[69280sl]

The Silver Star Restorations page, shows in its list of changes that the 280sl pad, in January 1968, went from "coarse to smooth". Can someone please describe "smooth". What does it look like?

Gus
1968 280sl
Signal Red/ Beige/ Black

[Bob G]

If you look at an orginal firewall insulation pad you will notice diamond shape patterns accross the pad. The smooth pad was not really smooth but textured with out the diamonds in the pad. Mercedes Benz sold large pads of this insulation for sound proofing the interior of the inside of the car like floors and I assume that is were the after market fire wall pad kits are cut from.

Bob Geco

[Ed Cave]

Here is another close up shot or two of an original firewall pad from a 1971 that was carefully removed, restored and replaced.
Download Attachment: 1971-Firewall-Pad.jpg
39 KB

Download Attachment: orig-pad.jpg
44.52 KB

Ed Cave
Atlanta, GA


1971 280SL
1973 911S
2004 A4 3.0
2006 GS430

[69280sl]

quote:Originally posted by krwaxbz

If you look at an orginal firewall insulation pad you will notice diamond shape patterns accross the pad. The smooth pad was not really smooth but textured with out the diamonds in the pad. Mercedes Benz sold large pads of this insulation for sound proofing the interior of the inside of the car like floors and I assume that is were the after market fire wall pad kits are cut from.

Bob Geco

Thanks Bob, you just saved me from spending $3075 on a pad that would not have been correct (just kidding).

Gus
68 280sl

inspectorgm

[Tom230sl]

I just  love this forum!

So, the "diamond" pattern comes from the manufacturing tooling die used in production of the pad. Actually more like squares but on an angle they look like diamonds. So Ed's pad must be one of those "hybrid" pads that have both some diamond pattern left (see pic) and some smooth!?! Ed Cave's photo of  "an original firewall pad" is a perfect example of a THIRTY FOUR YEAR OLD original firewall pad! Thats 34 years of heat cycles and general wear and tear. You can see by my photo that Ed's "Original" pad has some tooling marks that still remain after all these years. The fact is that 34 years of use the material breaks down, the fibers fatigue and the result is what Ed's pad looks like. Now Ed's car is beautifully done, and they did a great job of removing and dying the old pad black...but  in the end of the day, its just an old pad with a face lift. Don't pass it off as the gold standard. My photo highlights the old and new pad's pattern. Moreover, Ed's pad looks paper thin, no doubt from the scraping/ removal process... The pad is meant to insulate and something that thin does not do a thing.

I get a little tired of the so called "experts" putting forth information that is factually incorrect to suit their own needs or position. The "lamb's" out there never call you on it.

Gus, settling for "good enough" is fine and will "always" save you money (just kidding)

Tom


Download Attachment: pattern.jpg
60.73 KB

[Chad]

Buck up Ed! True, you may only have your original firewall pad, but you're still a nice guy.

-CD-
1967 230SL, 113.042 10

[Tom230sl]

...and Chad is...


a nice guy too!

[Chad]

Jeez...

-CD-
1967 230SL, 113.042 10

[Tom230sl]

Aww, just kiddin'. Can't a guy have a little fun?

[Chad]

Yeah, no problem.

[n/a]

Fact,Ed's car is a original rust free example, with a very beauiful  original firewall pad,all this talk about the pad being thin is a bunch of b.s.,I have seen reproduction pad's that for under a $100.00 dollars are not that bad,and as long as the car has a clean and tidy engine bay it can look spectacular,It is not like mercedes has no replacements for the firewall pad that would make this part so costly,My firewall pad is about the same condition as ed's car and the cabin noise is no different then cars with the new pad from millers with the insulation, Trust me on this,But comparing gullwing luggage to a firewall pad is like comparing a timex watch to a patek philippe , At what point do we draw the line,I have bought parts cars for less,In the past i have seen people pay alot of money for so called rare parts only to see them reproduced over the next couple of years,Lost money they can never get back that could have been used on much more important parts of the car,So i would say to all members use what is available now and you can always change later.Their are members on this site that will go out of their way to help save you money and advise you on what is money well spent,Be smart,As one member stated,(CAVEAT EMPTOR).................

R.H.

[Tom230sl]

Hey sport, with all this flaming you're doing, you'll be at regular level before you know it.

Original is one thing, good enough is another. Like it or not. Grow up or go have a drink. Many times I've been tempted to use powder coating instead of paint, but it wouldn't be correct... even though it's better.  Or how bout a Nardi wheel?  Looks great but not correct.  What's a bunch of bs is one guys opinion of what's good enough or just fine or good value and tries to ram it down the throat of everyone else like it's gospel.  Yes, Ed's car is a beautiful restoration, period.

So are your legs getting tired standing on your soapbox?
BTW the issue is heat, not sound!

[Douglas]

How abot we have a truce here. The beauty of this forum is not only the information exchanged, but the congenial nature of the group. This has always been an extremely pleasant forum. We're here to help each other and to have fun.

If you think Tom's part is too expensive, then don't buy it. He's entitled to ask what he wants and it's just not right to question the guy's honesty. The sticking point here is price, not integrity.

[n/a]

Please,you have a car that was full of rust,Restored pans and all sorts of metal work,Is that original???You talk about Ed's car,One can only wish to have as fine example of an original car like that. Stop trying to sell members on this original deal of yours,When they can get by just fine with the after market pad,By the way how many pads are in that roll anyway??Must be very long....... You used the nice members of this site to help you restore that fully rusted car of yours and that is how you treat them $3000.00 dollars plus shipping for a pad,Your a great guy,Then you tell the members your just trying to recoup your investment,I have a great idea,Why not start a fund raiser,Ask for donations,Then your sure to recoup your investment.Tell us some more about the heat and noise this pad will eliminate,The fact is you spent alot of money on a car that anyone in the know would never have attempted,You know alot about firewall pads but not much about a good car to start with,Hardly a guy i would take advice from..........Caveat Emptor.

R.H.

[Tom230sl]

follow along now robbie...  I was talking about the pad... not the car!

...issues...

[Tom230sl]

quote:Originally posted by Douglas

How abot we have a truce here. The beauty of this forum is not only the information exchanged, but the congenial nature of the group. This has always been an extremely pleasant forum. We're here to help each other and to have fun.

If you think Tom's part is too expensive, then don't buy it. He's entitled to ask what he wants and it's just not right to question the guy's honesty. The sticking point here is price, not integrity.

well said

[Vince Canepa]

To get back to the original question, the early pad, which applies the the 230 and early 250SL is different than the diamond pad and it was thicker as well.  The attached photo is of an admittedly aged early pad, but I think you will get the idea.  The backing was fiber as opposed to foam on the later pad.  The outer surface was a rather thin, hard "bumpy" material with no particular pattern.  The same material was used on the lower firewall of the 114/115 chassis cars and the 108s.  With the change to the later pad, the geometric pattern emerged along with the thinner foam backing.  My car has the later pad (original and in excellent condition) and looks at lot like the Ed Cave restored pad except that the foam backing is very yellowed at the edges and is (maybe) slightly thicker.

Download Attachment: Early firewall pad.jpeg
33.89 KB

Vince Canepa
1967 250SL
113.043-10-001543
568H Signal Red
116 Caviar MB-Tex

[J. Huber]

You might call this "speaking of firewall pads" Part II. As I follow this (sadly) entertaining discussion of firewall pads, I am compelled to say that the "replacement" pad I bought a few years back is actually quite nice. It fit well and I am sure it will last a long time. I know I am not the only guy with a nice ol' driver of a Pagoda (versus the concours variety) and I gotta tell you my engine bay benefited greatly from the new pad. It just helped frame the bay, and together with some general sprucing up, allows me to open up the hood with pleasure. The benefit, in my case, more than outweighed the cost.

I guess I am just saying that, if you are a firewall pad away from nirvana, OEM is probably the way to go, but if you just want to clean things up a bit and get to drivin', there are other options.

James
63 230SL

[Ed Cave]

Vince made a good point. The pad in my car (1971) had a lighter foam backing than the earlier cars and this padding had decomposed for the most part we discovered as it was removed during the restoration. This dried out crispy foam backing was cleaned from the 'skin' so to speak and was refaced with a new similar foam material replicating the original material as closely as possible. Maybe it looks paper thin (as Tom suggests) in the photos but in fact it was re-backed with new foam, pretty thin but then again, it was pretty thin to begin with.

I can't imagine that any of this makes that much of a difference in the heat or noise level I experience from the cockpit.

I agree with Doug, Tom can ask whatever he wants for his pads and nobody has to buy one but if he throws it out in a forum such as this, he will get some feedback.

Ed Cave
Atlanta, GA


1971 280SL
1973 911S
2004 A4 3.0
2006 GS430

[n/a]

Ed,you are right on tarket,also with all the internet fraud it would be nice too see some pictures of all these so called firewall pads,Every picture is of the same pad ,How many pads are on this rool??Like ed said if the firewall pad is good in you car it can be removed and a insulation backing can be addded,But this heat and sound is all b.s..,It is all a sales pitch,Ed your car is the best of the best,A Restoration is a Restoration a good rust free car is always the best way to go,By the way ed i was able to find the original rubber bumpers,The threes pieces that buffer the  hood,I found the only one is the usa and germany this is the true square rubber with the flat top not the 190sl kind or the milles but the real deal i was able to get the last strip,I would like to send you a set on me,A car of that class should have it. Just email me with your address...........Best wishes Robert.

R.H.

[Tom230sl]

Mmm, so what purpose does pad serve then...................?

my pads come with backing, or without... and they are NEW... no bs!

(someones nose is getting brown)

[JPMOSE]

Being a newbie I will want to replace my firewall pad at some point.  Although the '68 250SL I obtained is in nice original condition, the firewall pad leaves much to be desired.  I read that inquires have been made to reproduce the pads with the original square (angled to look like diamonds).  I just spoke with Millers Inc. and they said the pads are procured from Germany.  From their knowledge, no plans have been disclosed about a redesign.

Does anyone have further information about a possible change in the future?  If so, I would like to wait (Tom..I would love to get one of yours but can't justify spending 3k on a car that I don't plan on showing).  

Thanks for your time.





Best Regards,

J. P. Mose
1968 250SL

[Douglas]

I've got to think it's pretty unlikely the original pad is going to be reproduced anytime soon. I wouldn't hold out hope for that. And even if it were produced once again, it would have to be priced pretty low to be competitive with the repro pad, which is acceptable to most folks out there.