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Pagoda SL Group  |  W113 Pagoda SL Group  |  General Discussion  |  Topic: 230 sl brake question Advanced search
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Locked Topic Topic: 230 sl brake question  (Read 1972 times)
« on: March 02, 2005, 19:44:30 »
merrill
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Location: USA, TX, Austin
Posts: 879



Hello all,
I am in the process of gathering up parts to refurb the rear brakes on my 66 230 sl. I need to either replace or have the rear brake dust shields stripped and re-painted.
when I looked at the parts book at the dealership, it appears that I have to pull the axels to pull the dust shields.
is this correct?  I'm not sure if I want to take on that kind of job.

sl tech quoted me 3,000 to refurb the rear end , brake drum to brake drum. I am starting to think that was a fair price.

any suggestions?

thx in advance
matt
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Matt
Austin Tx
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230
 
Reply #1
« on: March 03, 2005, 00:49:08 »
ja17
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Location: USA, OH, Blacklick
Posts: 4500



Hello matt,

Yes the rear axles must be removed before the brake backing plate can be taken off . Not an easy job. The brake shoes and emergency brake cables will need to be removed also! The axles will require a puller or a little ingenuity. Once apart think about replacing the axle oil seals, bearings, brake shoes, rebuilding brake cylinders, rubber brake hoses, etc!? Your half way to replacing the one-piece rear axle boot! Where do you stop.

Maybe instead buy a couple cans of brake kleen and some masking tape and paint as well as possible assembled and use the $3000.00 somewhere else !

Depends on how far you intent to go, and how much you want to spend.



Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
« Last Edit: March 03, 2005, 00:49:56 by ja17 » Logged

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
 
Reply #2
« on: March 03, 2005, 03:43:40 »
jsaylor
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Location: USA, HI, Kapaa
Posts: 160



Matt,

I just  did my rear end.  Pulled axles replaced bearings, seals rubber boot, stripped and repainted everything w/ epoxy primer including break backing plates, drums, springs and trailing arms.  Rebuilt cylinders and replaced all suspension rubber...
Looks new!!  I will reinstall this Sat.

A lot of work and time, but fun and not a huge challenge.  If you have questions I'd be happy to answer them if I can.

Aloha, Cool

Jim Saylor
Kauai, Hawaii
'65 230SL
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Jim Saylor
Kauai, Hawaii
'65 230SL
 
Reply #3
« on: March 03, 2005, 13:13:06 »
merrill
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Location: USA, TX, Austin
Posts: 879



Jim,
thanks for the reply,
Sometimes I wonder what I have gotten into.
I lived in honolulu for 20 yrs. Just shipped the 230 over to tx.
I would like to discuss more about this project.
let me know what method is best.

thx
matt
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Matt
Austin Tx
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230
 
Reply #4
« on: March 03, 2005, 14:56:38 »
Benz Dr.
Vendor
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Location: Canada, ON, Port Lambton
Posts: 3358



I sold an axel to someone on this list a while back for about $1,100.00 USD. Gone through and cleaned up. I'm too cheap or they're too much - you decide.

Daniel G Caron
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1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn, K&K dealer since 1989, benzbarn@kent.net, +1 877 661 6061, +1 519 677 5939
 
Reply #5
« on: March 04, 2005, 03:21:50 »
jsaylor
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Location: USA, HI, Kapaa
Posts: 160



Matt,

I have the same though often "what have I started",  though I just love to jump in.  Its how I get things done.  As to how to communicate?  Here is ok or though regular E-Mail.  You can Email me @ ( jsaylor@aloha.net ).  I'd be happy to be of any assistance.   You should know that NOT Knowing how to do something rarely slows me down much, though I'm blessed w/ good hands and can generaly see how things work.

Aloha

Jim Saylor
Kauai, Hawaii
'65 230SL
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Jim Saylor
Kauai, Hawaii
'65 230SL
 
Reply #6
« on: March 04, 2005, 13:05:18 »
merrill
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Location: USA, TX, Austin
Posts: 879



Jim,
thanks for the reply,
I guess I need to list out everything I need to r/r the rear end.

My real concern it pulling the axles.  I don't want to damage anything.
I might as well replace everything possible once I have the axle off the car.

I'll be in touch
matt
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Matt
Austin Tx
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230
 
Reply #7
« on: March 04, 2005, 21:51:43 »
ja17
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Location: USA, OH, Blacklick
Posts: 4500



Hello Matt,
You can buy a very expensive puller from Mercedes to remove the axels or you can get a piece of 2" angle iron , about 18" long, drill two holes in it and bolt it to your wheel lugs on your rear axels. After unbolting the brake backing plate and emergency cable housing, take a big hammer and pound on the back of the angle iron, driving the axels and bearings out of the axle tubes. I am sure there are other home spun methods also. I made my own special puller, but the angle iron method will work just fine and will cost you only a few dollars.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
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Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
 
Reply #8
« on: March 05, 2005, 03:24:58 »
jsaylor
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Location: USA, HI, Kapaa
Posts: 160



Matt,

Pulling the axles is not hard.  Joes method should work fine.  I love buying tools, so I bought a slide hammer puller for not much cash from checkers auto parts. Used one of the supplied hooks and tapped axles out.  Much easier than I thought.  I actually had a harder time pulling the old oil seals.  I used a section of PVC pipe to seat the new seals less chance of a miss hit w/ mallet damaging the new seals.   I also used a long piece of PVC  to  seat the new bearings.  It worked great.  What do you have for workshop manuels?

Jim Saylor
Kauai, Hawaii
'65 230SL
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Jim Saylor
Kauai, Hawaii
'65 230SL
 
Reply #9
« on: March 05, 2005, 09:36:54 »
George Des
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Location: USA, Fl, Ft Myers
Posts: 918



The rear axles on the 230SL actually come out fairly easily unless there is some problem internally. Frist time I did this job, I had read the workshop manual that clearly advised against using a slide hammer because of possible internal damage the pounding could cause. Had all sorts of nighmares about how to fabricate a tool that looked somewhat like the MB axle puller that is illustrated. When I started to disassemble the rear axle, I was pleasently surprised that all it required was a few relatively minor taps with a slide hammer to pull the axle out on both sides. Actually think I could have given it a good "yank' and it would have had the same effects. Not sure if this would be the case on the 250s and the 280s since I hear that there is some sort of internal snap link on the side with the sliding joint that requires the axle to be held up at a certain angle in order to disengage/engage with the axle end. This is not present on the 230Sls if it is a stock rear axle. Pulling the bearings off the rear axle itself will require you to fabricate a set of "long arms" for your bearing puller. I used four pieces of flat 3/4" steel with holes appropriately drilled in order to provide the proper "reach" to pull the bearings. Remember, the bearings are not the same--some suppliers say they are interchangeable, but Stuttgart obviously made a conscious decision to use a self-centering roller bearing on the right side--probably due to the deflection caused by the flexing on this side. This bearing is quite a bit more expensive than the $10-20 bucks the one on the left side will be( about $90.00 is about right. To replace the bearings you'll need to use a piece of steel pipe that will fit over the axle and allow you to PRESS on the INNER race of the bearing. PRESS- not bang--on the INNER race- not the outter! The job is a lot easier than it sounds--I've done it more than a few times--it just takes some time and ingenuity.

Good Luck

George Des
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Reply #10
« on: March 05, 2005, 11:42:41 »
merrill
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Location: USA, TX, Austin
Posts: 879



well, well, maybe this is not such a big job after all.
thanks to all who have replied.

first, thanks to those who provided alternatives to pulling the axles.  the hanyes manual, all i have, indicated the passenger side axle had the circlip, however it appears this may not be an issue after all.

second.  should I pull the axles the the entire rear end to refurb and paint?  This seems like a lot of work but it has to be easier than working under the car,  I am sure I need new sub frame mounts, pivot mount etc....  

third
so the axles will require bearings and oil seals only?  are there inner and outer bearings or are the inner bearings part of the diff?
can the axles be pulled then mess with the brake backing plates? etc..  I'm not sure what kind of corrosion is going on and how stuck this stuff is.

Last, If I pull the entire rear end,
I guess I need new subframe mounts, pivot mount, might as well get new progressive springs, shock absorbers, axle bellows and clips? and finally locating strut bushings?

can I change the seals to the diff on my own?  or should I take the diff to a dealer, I don't necessarily want to separate the axles.

ahhhh,  It sure seems like a lot, probably not as hard as I think it is.  Every time I work on my 300d or c230 i am amazed at how straight forward mb engineers stuff.  the SL has to be the same.

matt

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Matt
Austin Tx
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230
 
Reply #11
« on: March 05, 2005, 13:33:57 »
George Des
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Location: USA, Fl, Ft Myers
Posts: 918



Merrill,
This is one one of those jobs that is worth doing right and you'll probabaly never need to do it again. That being said, the only right way to do it is to drop the rear end out of the car--that will require time and some frustration because no doubt you will find like many of us who have done this job, that you always hit a snag. First frustration will come with parts that have rusted themselves to the point that you may have to destroy them to get them off--this applies primarily to the fasteners on the rear control arms--those big nuts that are locked in place with a locking plate. if you're not careful you can cause a lot of collateral damage, esepcially if you use heat--there are some teflon spacers behind that can not stand up to the heat--they are available but most suppliers will only provide them in a complete kit. The watch word when disassembling the rear axle is "careful". The re-assembly will introduce some other frustrations when it comes to re-fitting the rear axle and the rear springs with the rubber do-nuts. Many of us have done this job and can walk you through it once you've started it--be prepared to have your car done for a good while though.

Good luck --George Des
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Reply #12
« on: March 06, 2005, 03:03:09 »
jsaylor
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Location: USA, HI, Kapaa
Posts: 160



Matt,

Patience...  If you do it and do it well you will not be dissapointed.  Absolutely worth it.  There are definate challenges.  Had a hell of a time refastening the trailing arms today, but The rearend w/ new breaks rubber and mount is in.  I;m thrilled I did it and am happy that its over with. Cheesy

Jim Saylor
Kauai, Hawaii
'65 230SL
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Jim Saylor
Kauai, Hawaii
'65 230SL
 
Reply #13
« on: March 06, 2005, 22:31:12 »
merrill
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Location: USA, TX, Austin
Posts: 879



Jim,
Contrats!  Wanna swap?  
my parts guy should have some info on the parts tomorrow. (what is available and how much)
I need to tell him I will need bearing and oil seals.  You and god know what else I will end up needing.

I'm glad that I do not have to rush to get this done.

Matt
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Matt
Austin Tx
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230
 
Reply #14
« on: March 07, 2005, 02:45:39 »
jsaylor
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Location: USA, HI, Kapaa
Posts: 160



Matt,

Who are you useing for parts?  Cheryl @ K&K is great, knows her pagota's.  I rebuilt the wheel cylinders and just needed toreplace the piston rods.  Replaced all rubber on trailing arms, O rings on rear end hanger mount, spring seats top and bottom.  The refinishing of the rear end I did mostly w/ a wire brush on my grinder or by hand (gas cleans great)  I painted w/ PPG DP epoxy semigloss primer.  This sprays well looks great and inhibits rust.  I used the same finish on the break backing plates and the sand blasted break drums.  

Good luck!

Jim Saylor
Kauai, Hawaii
'65 230SL
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Jim Saylor
Kauai, Hawaii
'65 230SL
 
Reply #15
« on: March 07, 2005, 07:16:15 »
ja17
Full Member
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Location: USA, OH, Blacklick
Posts: 4500



Hello,
You guys should think about using K1 Kerosene instead of gasoline for cleaning. The kerosene is a lot saver to use around power tools!

Dealing with the exhaust system is one of the biggest headaches for removal and installation of the differential.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
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Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
 
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