Author Topic: Fender Notches  (Read 21011 times)

Trip

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Fender Notches
« on: April 04, 2015, 10:48:27 »
Hi, I have read the posts about the notches, but the pics are not very good, my car is finally at the paint shop and is missing them - I would greatly appreciate it if someone could email me a better close-up.
My email is: lance730@msn.com.   Are they just 5/8 inch creases, or protrusions?  I am just not clear on how they look. Thanks,
Trip Owen
DC

Jordan

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Re: Fender Notches
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2015, 11:36:14 »
I pulled these off Motoring Investments some time ago as I also have to get mine reinstalled.  Hope this helps.

Marcus
66 230SL  Euro 4 speed

Trip

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Re: Fender Notches
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2015, 13:44:03 »
EXACTLY WHAT I NEEDED - perfect.

KevinC

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Re: Fender Notches
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2015, 11:56:07 »
Trip,

They are a notch and a "step" at the same time. The portion below the notch is out a little further than the portion above.

Kevin  

pj

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Re: Fender Notches
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2015, 11:58:28 »
What I would like to see is a close-up photo of the fender notches without any paint on them. Maybe someone has done a project down to bare metal and took an appropriate photo to share?
Peter J
1965 230SL #09474 named Dagny
2018 B250 4matic named Rigel

Tomnistuff

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Re: Fender Notches
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2015, 20:32:48 »
There apparently are not any fender notches in bare metal.  They do not appear to have been in the original stamping.  The notches are either made with lead or with some sort of body filler to match the headlamp frame before priming and painting.  At least that is what it appears to be when the non-original paint and primer were removed from my car.  Someone who has carefully removed original paint can better discuss how the notches were made.

My fenders, had no notches or signs of notches after being repainted the first time.  When I bought it , the paint was not original, but the base metal showed no signs of ever having had notches.  My body restorer created the notches by building up the fender on both sides of the "notch line" to be flush with the headlight frame, using really good and hard body filler.

Tom Kizer
Apparently late 1966 230SL 4-spd manual (Italian Version)
Owned since 1987 and wrapping up a full rotisserie restoration/modernization.
Was: Papyrus White 717G with Turquoise MBtex 112 and Kinderseat
Is: Dark Blue 332G with Dark Blue Leather (5300, I think)

mbzse

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Re: Fender Notches
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2015, 20:56:25 »
Quote from: Tomnistuff
There apparently are not any fender notches in bare metal../...
The notches were made by hand with lead at the Pagoda production line in Sindelfingen. This is why there are slight variations in shape between individual cars.
However, the general idea is to match (mirror) the crease on the outside of the fender. See also Kevin's note [reply#4].
/Hans in Sweden
.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2016, 12:05:49 by mbzse »
/Hans S

mmizesko

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Re: Fender Notches
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2015, 21:37:20 »
Here are mine from last year.  buildup of filler and then 3/4 or 5/8 file notch.  You can barely see them, so I hope you have a magnifier.

Mike Mizesko
Columbus, OH
1970 280SL 291H Dark Olive

66andBlue

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Re: Fender Notches
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2015, 00:12:09 »
What I would like to see is a close-up photo of the fender notches without any paint on them. Maybe someone has done a project down to bare metal and took an appropriate photo to share?

PJ,
why do you want to see them in the nude?  They are falsies!   ;D
Alfred
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pj

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Re: Fender Notches
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2015, 08:20:18 »
Live and learn :-)
Peter J
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2018 B250 4matic named Rigel

mmizesko

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Re: Fender Notches
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2015, 13:06:39 »
Alfred.

That's a little harsh.  I like to think of it as restoring what God, (or Stuttgart) intended.

BTW, No Silicone or Saline here.

Mike
1970 280SL 291H Dark Olive

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Re: Fender Notches
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2015, 14:07:39 »
I think (God ... Stuttgart) made a mistake to ship the cars out with the fender notch on the first cars shipped, and then just continued to do so LOL ~grin~ (just kidding).

I don't have any fender notches and you know I don't miss them at all, I love my car as she is :)
DD 2011 SL 63 AMG and my 69 Pagoda 280 SL

Benz Dr.

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Re: Fender Notches
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2015, 17:38:34 »
Ah yes, the Holy Grail known as fender notches.  :) I've actually watched guys turn there nose up at a car because it didn't have any.... :D

1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
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john.mancini

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Re: Fender Notches
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2015, 00:37:00 »
Have owned 7 Pagodas and the variations in the fender notches were amazingly different.
John
68 280SL 906 Blue 4-sp
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Tomnistuff

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Re: Fender Notches
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2015, 17:27:41 »
I can almost hear the conversation between the body designer (styling), the design engineer (engineering) and the plant engineer (assembly plant) now.  I wish I could repeat it in German.

The design engineer says, "Hey, Wolfgang, left and right headlight frames and chrome surrounds are too expensive.  The have to be identical to minimize tooling and inventory."

The body designer answers, "No way, Hans.  That would mean we would have to stamp a matching groove in the fender on the inside of the headlight.  That changes the draft angle, becomes too complicated to draw the sheetmetal and the scrap goes up.  On the other hand, we can't remove the groove on the outside of the fender because it runs the full length of the car and the board has already approved the clay."

The plant engineer, Werner, jumps in with, "Why do you guys always have to make things difficult?  Just make the headlights the same, tell me how much we will save, and we'll fix the fenders at the end of the line with a glob of lead and a file for half the savings.  We just want the plant to get credit for the savings.  OK?"

The design engineer says, "OK, lets go get a beer.  I'll buy."

Fifty three years later, we are still discussing what was, at the time, an excellent decision.

Been there!  Done that!  End of Problem!

However, since Herr Friedrich Geiger is no longer with us, perhaps someone might pose the question to M. Paul Bracq.  He was probably closer to the problem than his boss at the time anyway.

Tom Kizer
« Last Edit: May 29, 2015, 17:39:59 by Tomnistuff »
Apparently late 1966 230SL 4-spd manual (Italian Version)
Owned since 1987 and wrapping up a full rotisserie restoration/modernization.
Was: Papyrus White 717G with Turquoise MBtex 112 and Kinderseat
Is: Dark Blue 332G with Dark Blue Leather (5300, I think)

mmizesko

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Re: Fender Notches
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2015, 12:05:30 »
Mr. Bracq is a member of this site.  Just send him a personjal message.

Mike
1970 280SL 291H Dark Olive

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Re: Fender Notches
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2015, 14:36:38 »
Mr. Bracq is a member of this site.  Just send him a personjal message.

Mike

PM sent
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pj

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Re: Fender Notches
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2016, 18:48:49 »
Dieter,
it's been almost a year. Did M. Bracq reply to this thread? Not too long from now, I will have to decide whether our body shop leaves the notches out or fakes them like the factory did.
Peter J
1965 230SL #09474 named Dagny
2018 B250 4matic named Rigel

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Re: Fender Notches
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2016, 20:20:34 »
Peter he never ever replied, I suggest you have the notches put in if they are not there. It should be visible to the naked eye where they should be if they have been filled with paint in past re-painting. I assume. You had the body shop go down to bare metal before they repainted your car.

If all fails have them use a paint gauge or use your light chrome rings to line up the notch locations.

Cheers Peter

PS. When is your car going to be all done? Later this summer?
DD 2011 SL 63 AMG and my 69 Pagoda 280 SL

Benz Dr.

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Re: Fender Notches
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2016, 21:04:11 »
Peter he never ever replied, I suggest you have the notches put in if they are not there. It should be visible to the naked eye where they should be if they have been filled with paint in past re-painting. I assume. You had the body shop go down to bare metal before they repainted your car.

If all fails have them use a paint gauge or use your light chrome rings to line up the notch locations.

Cheers Peter

PS. When is your car going to be all done? Later this summer?

I have a hand in this job. We have almost all of the mechanical portion done but there's still a lot to do. some chrome and interior will be done now so it will be ready when it all goes back together.

So, to answer your question, eventually.

1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

Shvegel

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Re: Fender Notches
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2016, 18:10:35 »
do I get extra credit if my notches are in the steel? The guy doing my metalwork is pretty fussy about things like that (He once sent me a picture of the hood gaps labeled to the hundredth of a millimeter) so he hammered them out in the steel.

cabrioletturbo

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Re: Fender Notches
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2016, 22:39:40 »
do I get extra credit if my notches are in the steel? The guy doing my metalwork is pretty fussy about things like that (He once sent me a picture of the hood gaps labeled to the hundredth of a millimeter) so he hammered them out in the steel.

Oh Shvegel I would like to meet your metalwork man. Obviously you would recommend him, so if you could please share his contact info in vendor section that would be great.
Igor
1965 W113 230SL, Ivory with Black

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Re: Fender Notches
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2016, 23:40:17 »
Oh Shvegel, really to the hundredth of a millimeter where does he live near you? We know you live somewhere in the US does he live within driving distance to your house or did you have to truck your car to him?

Im asking of course since a 100 of a millimetre = 0.0004" I would have hired this feller when I was in business as a machinist to maintain TIR (total indicator runout) of my rotating element bearing journals within my specified 0.0002" If you ask me your metalwork fellow is in the wrong business LOL
DD 2011 SL 63 AMG and my 69 Pagoda 280 SL

Shvegel

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Re: Fender Notches
« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2016, 18:14:13 »
He's good but he is slow.  Almost 10 years now.  I made the mistake of sending my Father in law's 911 to him and of course he banged out the 911 and my car is still "In progress".  No one gets his contact info again until my car is done.

Rolf-Dieter,
He's about 700 miles from me.  He actually flew in and drove my car up as we thought this was going to be a refurbishment.  Shortly thereafter he arrived with a truckload of crates that used to be my car.  He finished the metalwork then trucked the shell to Detroit for E-coat epoxy coating and I brought it home for undercoating and seam sealing.  It is now back at his place getting painted. He basically skinned the entire car and replaced all the inner structure as well.  To his credit the only seam that required and filler was a 4" seam between the quarter panel and the trunk hinge panel.  Everything else was metal finished to perfection.  I have to look and see if I can find the picture of the hood gaps.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2016, 23:45:43 by Shvegel »

Shvegel

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Re: Fender Notches
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2016, 23:52:15 »
My father in law's car. Before and after.