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Hello All,
Well here are two photos of the Coker's on my car. One of them is a detail of the infamous rub strip. The other is an overall picture of the right front tire. I did notice that the car looked a little different to me, perhaps a bit of an improvement, with the "original" 185's on it as opposed to the "more aggressive" looking Pirelli's in 205, however this appearance look didn't translate well to an 80K photo so they are not here.
I can't really explain the difference in handling other then in matches what was to be expected. Though the information is over 40 years old,
conventional radial tires were examined and rejected by MB as having too flexible sidewalls; the RA60/Phoenix was the answer. Whether or not anyone can find modern production tires as opposed to reproduction tires with sidewalls as stiff is a matter of testing--I don't think the tire manufacturers publish such information, but perhaps an inquiry on a more advanced level to their technical departments would yield some results.
In reality, with all our cars in various states of repair/disrepair; restored/unrestored, original and altered, every vehicle will feel a bit different with every set of tires. Cees has it nailed 100%. In our next tech session, we should be doing some tire swapping and anybody willing to make the journey to wherever that might be is welcome to try my Coker's while I try yours.
One must also consider that any kind of change to the suspension has an effect on everything else. My car has been restored to "original" specs, with original parts, original rubber, original springs etc. This certainly does not yield the best handling car, but arguably as original as you can get. The original test reports of the car, which you can read in the Brooklands Gold Portfolio (thanks Doug!)
do not give stellar raves about the car's handling. For example, brake diving which the progressive rate springs correct for, was as prevalent in 1964 as it is in 2004. Tom Sargeant's car has been in a state of flux with many changes to the suspension as he strives to improve it.
I've had the good fortune to have driven his car and inarguably it feels considerably tighter and better then mine. If anyone doubts that all these suspension and tire issues don't all interact as a system, think Ford and Firestone.
It should be noted that while the Pirelli P400 205/70 are inexpensive at $51 each from Tire Rack, this is relative: there are only a couple of tires in this size that are more expensive (some Japanese brand I've never heard of and a Bridgestone)and a larger choice for somewhat less. I didn't buy the Pirelli's because of cost: at the time, armed with a considerably lesser knowledge then I have now, I "upsized" (bigger is better, right??) to the 205; and then searched for WW which is what my car came with when new. My first problem was when the spare wouldn't fit in the trunk; second problem was at "lock" the 205's had the ability to rub the inner fender well (and take off that body colored paint!!
) The Pirelli is noted as a touring tire. "Performance" tires are only a few in the 185-HR14 size or the 205/70 size. Add WW as a "requirement" and this drops to zero choice. There are companies that will put any size WW's on any tire but this gets VERY expensive.
I also don't "push" my car; it hasn't been on a track, and I don't drive it hard. It is a touring car and that is what I do. It NEVER leaves here with the top up, but sometimes comes back with it up if mother nature doesn't cooperate. About the most severe duty it gets is on the autobahns er highways around here where I usually end up doing 75-80mph and let traffic pass me by. A lane change at speed, or perhaps a quick burst to pass a truck is what I do. Those lane changes are where I really noticed the tire difference.
We can also note that the Michelin Symmetry does not have a great rating from Tire Rack's customers! Only 4.4/10 and
most wouldn't buy it again. And, it is a bit more expensive then other tires in size and class; it isn't H rated. Michelin's sales information says it is a touring tire as well designed for luxury cars, family cars and minivans. Expense doesn't necessarily get you what you are looking for. The Pirelli P400, on the other hand, has a 6.8/10 and most would buy it again! On Tom's car the Michelins might just be the best combination. I can't say anything about road noise but Tom's car is a wonderful driving car, no question. There was no trace of this disconnected feel in Tom's car, so perhaps the Michelin Symmetry tires would do equally as well on mine...in fact Tom and I
almost pulled off a swap until he discovered he already had a set of Pirelli's in his garage!
I'm not partial to Pirelli at all; my preference would have been German-made Continentals, and Michelin's second. I've had the best luck with Michelins over the years on my other cars.
As for quality, I had a long discussion with Jim Hildebrant of Coker about this tire. The Coker tire is made in a Michelin certified factory in Mexico. This means that this factory,
which makes Michelin tires as well (maybe even the Symmetry; check the sidewalls for "Made in Mexico"), makes this tire for Coker. Coker also developed this tire (European members tell us what this means) in conjunction with Valentin Schaal of Munchner Oldtimer Reifen in Munich, Germany specifically for the classic Mercedes market.
Well, let's do some tire swapping at the next tech session! I'm as interested as anybody in finding out if other less costly tires will feel as good on my car as the expensive Cokers...and my wife would be as well!
Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored
