Purchase Opportunity Advice

[GGR]

If you really like the Pagoda design better and if the California Coupe is best suited to your needs, then you are just left with having the car on a hoist and inspected for rust and/or the quality of the repairs. Indeed, undercoating, including in the engine bay, is a nice way to mask shady repairs.

Given that the seller is an MB mechanic well known in the club, you could also check on his reputation, this will tell you if you can trust his description. What does he say about rust and or repairs? If he maintained the car for all these years, he must know it inside out. Can he send you pictures of the undercarriage? Also ask for a scan of the data card if he's got it.

[RobSirg]

Leaving the roof on is not such a bad thing - many of us think these cars look prettiest with the Pagoda on display.....just saying.
I do take my roof off for the Aussie Spring and summer but if I lived in the UK - I think a permanent hardtop would be quite practical.
BTW - My 69 was imported from the UK. ....bought it on ebay without inspection (how crazy was that ) - it was a good one - i got lucky....very lucky. Mind you the front wings were replaced and they didnt do a great job.
The trunk floor on this looks new to me as do the sills - it appears to have had some work..........most people cut corners on these cars when they did repairs which is a damn pity.

I bought my 2nd (project) car with known rust from photo's - and I can now vouch that the rust is 4 times worse than what was described (in words and via photo). Fortunately, I assumed it would be.

[NorfolkJack]

I guess you're right, GGR - time to find an expert in the North East, and get on the MB Club forum.

Sounds like you had a lucky experience on eBay, RobSirg.

According to the seller the only major part that has ever required changing was the left side King pin. He also also replaced all the brake caliper seals and disc pads, and about 6 years ago he removed the cylinder head to replace the valve seals so the car could run on unleaded fuel.

[stickandrudderman]

WARNING:
Never rely on a seller's description of a car unless you are ABSOLUTELY, 100% SURE, that he is not only trustworthy, but that he knows these cars we'll. Being a Mercedes mechanic does not guarantee you that he knows the first thing about Pagodas. Of all of the Mercedes mechanics I have employed over the years I never had one that had any experience at all on Pagodas, I have always had to train them myself and not all of them "get pagodas".
Now, this particular car does, on the face of it, look like a bargain. I'm not going to go in to the pros and cons of California Coupes but if it is what it is claimed it is then you should leave a refundable deposit without delay.
Once you have secured 1st call on the car you can have it INDEPENDENTLY inspected and the build data verified. If all is well then you will have yourself a bargain.
For what it's worth I agree with Jaymanek that the car has been tarted up for sale but only up close and personal will reveal the truth.

[RobSirg]

Hear Hear Stick.

I would also not trust what the seller claims was original to the car or not. (he is often passing on what the previous owner told him - which is often wrong)

Before I purchased my project car I sourced the original data card myself and checked all the options (which varied from what the owner thought).

If you email : Paul.Heule@mbusa.com; on behalf of; 171-classicparts@mbusa.com
(I found him to be fantastic and he emailed me the card on the same day - you will need to send him the VIN number)

You can then post the data card here and the members will decode it for you and tell what options were factory original.

Best factual and free advice you might get

[stickandrudderman]

You don't need to bother with the USA, all dealers can get you the data card,, it's just that some are unfamiliar with the process.

[RobSirg]

That's what I read in the search previously - but when I rang the dealers in Aust., and explained what I was after - they thought I was smoking some funny stuff (Kangaroo droppings perhaps).

I rang MB Classic in Germany and they also said it (data card) would not be possible to source ........maybe got lost in translation I guess.

emailing the USA was easy and effective. (but you are correct - they should all be able to access the same data?)

[NorfolkJack]

I've been in touch with the Regional Officer of the MB Club, and he vouches for the seller, in both character and Pagoda skill level - he did work on the Officer's own Pagoda, and did a very good job, apparently. The officer also gave me the contact details of a guy who can do the inspection. I've asked the seller for a scan or the data card or failing that the VIN number, and he assures me that no work but that which I relayed to you guys has been done on the car. I will keep you posted.

In the meantime, has anyone got any experience of actually using a Cal Coupe as a 2+2? Is it viable to put 6 year-old kids in the back?

Thanks.

[mbzse]

.../.. I rang MB Classic in Germany and they also said it (data card) would not be possible to source ........maybe got lost in translation I guess

Must be so. Mercedes archives in Stuttgart do have the data cards for all vehicles produced at their factories.
This used to be real "thin cardboard" cards - but at some point not so long ago, they decided to microfilm them, and subsequently destroy those originals. However, not so good IMHO...  some of these microfilm printouts that one receives are next to unreadable  
Thus, the cars that do still have the original cardboard data card, back from time of delivery to the first owner, to go with the vehicle - become extra desirable

Note: in order to receive a printout of a Mercedes data card, one must provide proof of ownership of the vehicle. Mercedes do not just "send data cards out by simple request"
/Hans in Sweden

.

[stickandrudderman]

Maybe my local dealer treats me as a special case but I just call them with the VIN  and they email me the data card.

[NorfolkJack]

I just got the VIN number from the seller - he didn't have a scan of the datacard. Stickandrudderman, do you just call your regular MB dealer or is it a 113 specialist dealer?

[mbzse]

Maybe my local dealer treats me as a special case but I just call them with the VIN  and they email me the data card.

Ok, good for you Colin, he he .  Perhaps he then deletes the key codes (?)
/Hans in Sweden

[stickandrudderman]

Regular dealer.

[Paul & Dolly]

NorfolkJack..

M-Benz of Poole supply classic parts and have got data card details in the past

http://www.mercedes-benzofpoole.co.uk/content/united-kingdom/retail-sandown/mercedes-benz-of-poole/en/desktop/passenger-cars/service-repair/mercedes-benz-classic-parts.html


Paul

[jameshoward]

Ok, good for you Colin, he he .  Perhaps he then deletes the key codes (?)
/Hans in Sweden

Same experience as Colin. No proof of ownership required when I got a card via the classic centre in the US. They were very helpful.

[jaymanek]

My local dealer got me the one for the Pagoda... There was no charge.. They had to email the factory to get it.. There was a bit of a delay as at first they couldnt find it.
(Originals kept in a large filing cabinet apparently!). I would hope that they have now scanned them as a backup!
Once we had data card I could order spare keys.

For my W100 600, they struggled to get me the data card and any spare keys.. My local dealer said they couldnt get data card.. I phoned classic centre, he also struggled but eventually got me data card at a fee -  but couldnt get me a key, factory told him they were no longer supporting the special 600 keys, all they could provide was a blank that I would have to have cut locally. Well if anyone has seen an early 600 key, they are specially drilled keys, no locksmith I could find wanted to take it on. Also I didnt like the idea of a third party cutting my keys as they never get it spot on, this hastens barrell wear.

Knowing not to trust parts guys, I took my data card to a third dealer and he ordered the keys. Three days later I had two brand new keys in lovely period presentation boxes, correctly drilled and cut to my ignition.

As it turned out the last owners got in touch with me a few weeks later and sent me even more spare keys for the car!

Anyway, moral is, if one dealer says no, dont take that as gospel, keep trying others.
 

[NorfolkJack]

The seller supplied the datacard and here it is. Any help decoding much appreciated!

[GGR]

This page lists all the codes: http://www.sl113.org/wiki/DataCard/OptionCodes

It says 230 is for the 5 speed, and only comes with 232. I see both on the data card. It looks like your car came factory with a 5 speed. Let's see if other members interpret it the same way.

[NorfolkJack]

Thanks GGR - both these are invaluable pages here:
http://www.sl113.org/wiki/DataCard/DataCards
http://www.sl113.org/wiki/DataCard/OptionCodes
Using them, I think the only thing I have failed to decode is the number 320 in the box marked 'wenig gewuenscht'. 230 232 seems to mean that the ZF 5 gear was indeed there from the factory, as you say GGR, and with the alternative rear axle ratio. But what could 320 denote?

As ever, any tips much appreciated!

[GGR]

If you have the car checked by someone, have the vin appearing on the data card confirmed on the car's plate, but also stamped on the front right chassis rail. If the area has been sprayed with undercoating, it may involve some scraping with a screwdriver.

[NorfolkJack]

The seller supplied the same same VIN number before sending off for the datacard, but I'm not sure from where on the car he got it. I'll certainly check as you suggest, GGR.

The options code page says 'there were about 850 Pagodas built with 5 speeds'. This one being a RHD 250 California Coupe presumably makes it even more uncommon - not more desirable necessarily, but as James said, rare.

[GGR]

Google search says 320 may be a left side rear view mirror. You car doesn't seem to have any. It may have lost them when it was repainted. Still, have the vin number appearing on the data card cross-checked on the front left chassis rail (not only on the plate on the firewall).

If that's a true ZF 5 speed you should not waste too much time. Have the car checked and take your decision.

[kampala]

Code 320 might also be this:


320           from 01.03.1967  to 31.07.1980     ADDITIONAL PLATE AND REAR SEAT BENCH STOP FOR GREAT BRITAIN


Follow link from tech manual to other codes sites.


You should block out the key Codes and repost!

Sounds like you may have a tremendous bargain if the car checks out ---

[GGR]

Oh, and when you're having the car checked, even if the VIN checks out, make sure you indeed have a ZF 5 speed in there (number on the data card in "Getriebe"). A member here is the owner of a car that came out of factory with a ZF 5 speed. When he bought it though, the car had been retro-fitted with the usual 4 speed. He re-equipped it with a non original Getrag 5 speed out of a BMW until he could source an original ZF 5 speed transmission. These cars are over 40 years old, anything could have happened during their life.

[NorfolkJack]

Thanks for your tips, and thanks Kampala for advising to repost with the key codes blocked out, which I've done - I think!

I will arrange an inspection and let you know how things go.