trading cars

[Jkalplus1]

I like my car. I also like the E type Jaguar. I want both, but cannot afford both. I am wondering if there is an instrument for people like me to trade cars with someone, which would allow for proper valuation and exchange of similar quality cars, so that we could get to experience different cars of equivalent value without onerous sales and purchase transactions. Has anyone successfully done this before? I search online and cannot seem to find people or sites that specialize in that kind of trade.
Jerome

[wjsvb]

Interesting question!  People swap all sorts of things, but I've not heard of what you seek.  What follows is my (humble) opinion, born of having owned four of each in the last fifty years: 1) Find, for the E-type, a forum similar to this one and spend hours on it.  Everything bad that can happen has happened before and it is best to know how the bad is dealt with.  You will also know the questions to which to expect an answer.  2)  Look for a coupe 65-7, covered headlights.  The synchro first and the upgraded interior will please long-term.  3)  No 2+2's.  4)  As with 113's, your biggest worry is rust in the monocoque.  5)  If you are, like me, 70+, 6'2" and slightly arthritic, stick with the 113.  That said, the Jags, mechanically, are nearly bulletproof and, after all these years, the Lucas electrics seem to have become semi-respectable.  Good Luck!  Jon

[jameshoward]

My best mate bas an email-type. His is, like my 113, largely unrestored but in extremely good condition. No rust; strong engine; same year, etc. I've driven it and it's lovely. The gearing is completely different and it drives very differently. It's faster, but the brakes are appalling. The cockpit is very cheap by comparison and far less comfortable.  I'm 6'4". Getting in and out with those absurd doors is a pain. You also feels a lot more of the road, so the ride is less pleasant. But all that said, it looks stunning and sounds incredible.

Classic and Car mag did a comparison between the two a few years ago. Basically, the SL is a touring car. The Jag is a sports.car, unlike the SL, which isn't remotely sporty.

[Garry]

Having owned both up until fairly recently, I can only fully agree with James.

Looks fantastic, sounds great, goes well in a straight line until you want to stop, get in or out or have respect for your lower back. Tom Collit and I drove mine below from PUB in Ohio to LA in Summer 2011 and it was not a patch on a Pagoda.

There was a group in Australia that were pooling their cars and each could drive another on a points and $$ system.  You could buy in with out a car for x amount of days but I believe it eventually went bust.  Good idea just hard to administer and fund.

Garry

[Jkalplus1]

I am 6ft but 41 years old, so will not require chiro sessions from inconvenient cockpit access for years to come. While the Pagoda is really nice, almost too nice to be driven regularly, I want something fast and sporty that I could take to the track to get juices flowing every once in a while.  A 911 or a 308/328 would be logical for that, I just love the lines of the Jag, and from what I read it pulls quite nicely.

I see two solutions:

1-Sell the SL, buy something else.  Repeat every so often for variety.  I get the impression one cannot preserve equity easily this way, especially when it comes to truly nicely preserved or restored cars.  Which is possibly why #3 and #4 cars change hands way more often than the #1s and the #2s...

2-Least resistance: keep everything as-is and be happy.  I believe this is the solution -outside of a square trade of cars of equivalent value- that will preserve equity the best, as I could not afford this car if it had not already been in the family for 12 years.

Thanks to all who provided advice.  I had an opportunity to buy a restored -but not completely assembled- 69 roadster in Signal Red over black from a man I know, the mechanics is fitted to the car (frame-on resto), but it needs the rest re-assembled.  The price seems fair for a #2-#3 car (35k$ Canadian), but I will have to factor in reassembly costs (I have no time, busy job and 3 young kids), and then what?  Oh, we're missing this little bit of trim, etc (...). I am told absolutely everything is available for these cars, so it is not like an early 230SL to keep right.

I only like a car that looks really nice.  High #2 or better.  Which means I would need to spend more money on shiny bits etc. But the paint is done, and done well.  But I know there is panel fitment to consider, etc.  And also, a Series 2 is not as nice as the earlier cars I agree.  It just seems now is the time before they are completely unaffordable...but then, the Pagodas are going up as well...

I appreciate the first hand accounts of those who have experienced both.  Like I said, I am still early in my classic motoring journey, and though I could live with this SL forever, it seems like there are so many other interesting fun ones to try out in my (hopefully) 30+ years remaining in the hobby.  A trade with someone in the same situation seems like a good equity-preserving solution (for both parties) to me. 
 
Best,
Jerome

[Bonnyboy]

Jerome,  search for a Jaguar Club in your area,  join if you want but definately show up to a track day or event and see if someone there will trade rides.  We do it all the time in our club as long as you have a car to trade.  The E-type is as noted above, a totally different experience that I find very pleasing, however the most discussion at the last outing was to how the Jag drivers liked my 280sl with its standard tranny.  Different but still enjoyable.  I can't get to the limits of the 280sl as I am just not that good of a driver. 

I love the experience offered by my 280sl but also want something to thrash about so I am fixing up an MGB to bring back my fun factor. E types are a bit expensive to just pick up to thrash about but a well sorted MGB is still cheap.   

I have driven a 230SL that was totally restored with all new high performance bushings and suspension and that car drove again differently than my 280SL so maybe soup up your pagoda as a compromise.

[jameshoward]

I haven't seen but would be very interested to see a Jag on a track against a good pagoda. I have had my SL on a few tracks (incl an F1 track) and if you're prepared to thrash it hard and keep the revs right up there it isn't completely crap. It doesn't have he acceleration of the Jag, but the Pagoda if set up nicely (I use Koni adjustable shocks) it does grip and corner well, and brakes very well. I'm sure the Jag would win, but I'd just be interested to see by how much if a really good driver like The Stig were to take both cars around.

[Garry]

On a windy track I think it would be even money.  The Jag is not renouned for cornering or stopping very well, in fact not even adequately

[harleydan]

James,

I am thinking about Koni adjustable shocks to get a more sportier ride.  Which specific Koni model(s) did you get and what setting(s) do you run them on?

Thanks,
Danny
1970 280SL silver 4 speed Euro

[jameshoward]

Careful now, Danny. You're entering the realm of heresy. Some would have you strung up for your anti-Bilstein posture. But if you're prepared to weather the storm, read on... .

I run the rear of the car on Koni Classic adjustable shocks set at 2 turns out of a max of 3. So, the rear is quite stiff. The front runs on standard Bilstein shocks. I don't think it's a good set up. I want to try konis at the front next. I don't see the value of Bilsteins.

The rear tracks really well. The front dives and really digs into corners if taken fast. I think stiffer shocks will reduce that. The downside is that the ride is less gentile. When you do this, you enter the grey area between the Jag and the SL. The Merc wasn't designed to be a sports car (if it was, they screwed up) and so it rides beautifully. By sticking stiffer shocks on it, you get more precise handling, but the ride is harder.

HTH.

J

[Jkalplus1]

One could conceivably go that route with a decently solid 230sl with the headers and euro cam, strip a bit of weight, brace the shock towers, do the koni shocks, and have a second set of mags with racing tires for the track without digging too deeply in the 401k and have something reversible if resale is to be an option in the future.

[garymand]

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/ctd/4652537996.html
You might try one of these.  with an optional racing suspension, the 88 Tubo S and the 89 Turbo have the huge breaks Koni adjustables and huge hollow sway bars and larger turbo, it trounces most competitors. Stock with a chip they have 300 HP and what a ball to drive.  They don't show the motor on this one but someone has invested a bit into other places: the tires look to be 17 or 18"  Not the widest tire that fits, bu stock is 16...  and a few interior things.  

Got to warn you,  It is a Porsche.  Everything is as light as possible aimed at highest performance.  You will be doing major replacement and rebuilds every 60 to 80K miles.  And it rides like a race car not a street car.  It is definately not an old school mercedes.

Mine is waiting for me to pull its head and replace the head gasket, I think that will take me 2 whole days.  The boost limiter didn't.  

Here is what the shocks looks like and the motor from another.  http://stockton.craigslist.org/cto/4611730584.html

He didn't have much choice but to replace all that stuff, it has 118K on it.

[66andBlue]

....The Merc wasn't designed to be a sports car (if it was, they screwed up) ....

Now it is your turn to be careful James. 
Unfortunately it is too late otherwise I would have suggested that you drive south and talk to  Eugen Boehringer or his co-pilot Klaus Kaiser: