Restoration Difficulty Level

[Iconic]

Andy,
Of course this thread is amazing.
Thank you for telling the story.
I have a question. I have heard the rubber you are putting into the moldings shrinks at some point.
Are you cutting them long and squeezing them in?
Are you taking that into account when installing them, or have you pre-shrunk them in some way??
Or maybe the shrinking idea is not true?

[andyburns]

Hi Iconic.  Thanks for your kind sentiments. 

I had considered the rubber would shrink.  What I took out was by the look of it very old and it didn't appear to have reduced in length at all.  Was still tight at the ends. 

I did try and compress up the rubber as much as possible.  I would suggest that the problem arises when the installer actually stretches the rubber when installing and over time it naturally shrinks back to its original size.  I did notice that when you install this stuff your natural tendency as your stuffing it into the channel is to pull against the already installed length which is where the stretching would occur. 

I made sure when I was putting it in that I was installing it in compression.  Also why I started installing it off the reel to make sure I wasn't tempted to stretch it to fit.

In any event its not the most expensive problem to put right even if you do botch it up.  Will see over the next year or so if it moves.

[andyburns]

Worked yesterday on finishing up the door internals.  I used lithium grease to lube up the lifting mechanism.  Worked beautifully and now glides very smoothly.

I wasn't happy with the way the window hit the bottom stop though.  Mercedes seemed to have just glued two rubber mats to the bottom of the door for the two lowest points on the lifter to rest down on.  They give a small amount of damping but the window still comes to a pretty abrupt halt.  I decided to glue two blocks of 10mm closed cell foam to the factory mats.  Worked a treat and the makes the winding mechanism just that much more slick.  Comes to a nice smooth halt now.

[andyburns]

Finished up the day fitting the two doors with the brand new oem door rubbers.  Unlike the aftermarket crud I initially purchased two years ago these measured up to the mm.

I would say they were a pleasure to install but that might be going a little far.  I used high temp ados to glue them up.  Only two of the three edges need to be glued.  In the door jam the metal plates hold the rubber securely in place.  Absolute b$%ch to get the small screws into the door jam plates.  Definitely need a special screwdriver small enough to get into the limited space.  I used a small ratchet with a removable bit.  The factory more than likely built the entire door up off the car including the rubber so would have avoided this toil.

The new rubbers were initially very very stiff and made shutting the door quite difficult, but after opening and closing the door 20 or so times things worked themselves in and they now a very nice positive feel to them.  That nice Mercedes clunk.

[andyburns]

Started pulling apart the old door cards today.  Not a job I have been looking forward to.  I put it off when I did the rest of the interior as I knew it would be tricky.

When I pulled them off the car I noticed that there were lots of extra screws and also one of the cards had been reinforced with a second layer of card.  Just had a hunch that things weren't as they should be.

Pulling off the arm rests and map pocket revealed that the arm rests were a bit dodgy.   All the extra screws were used to hold this to the door card.  Still didn't think it was too bad and proceeded.

Drilled out all the factory rivets holding the top rail to the cardboard backing.  Really flat rivets which I think I am going to struggle to reproduce.  I might have to use slightly thicker closed cell foam to hide any lumps when I put it all back together.

[andyburns]

I have seen and studied quite a few online photos of door cards over the past couple of years.  One thing that I have seen often, even on fresh professional restorations is slight sagging in the door card leather or MB tex.  I even noticed it on a couple of the uber 250k Euro Brabus 113's.  I have pondered the reason for it and am wondering if its due to the lack of rigidity that the cardboard backing supplies.

I am wondering if when the cards are covered, with leather or MB tex, that the covers are likely to be stretched out and fitted on a perfectly flat table onto a perfectly flat backing card.  If you look at the panel in the door its go an ever so slight curve on it toward the front top of the door.  Thats where I have seen quite a few that sag.  Usually just around the door opener handle. 

I am wondering when the boards are put back on and the slight bend applied if it might loosen up the material and predispose it to sagging.

Just a theory at this point but I am wondering if its worth my while to take out a bit of extra insurance to make sure this doesn't happen to mine.

First out of the gate I am wondering if I should try and reproduce the backing board in something a bit more rigid and durable.  I have previously cut backing boards out of thin hard plastic sheet.  Very cheap and easy to work with.  The stuff you can buy at hardware stores used to create splash back in showers does the trick nicely.  You can get a full sheet for about 50 dollars which is enough to do both doors.

The stuff I use measure up at 3mm and the cardboard from the factory is 2.5 so it could cause some issue when you fold leather around it and then try and poke it in the U channel at the bottom of the door.

The up side is that you definitely will never have a swollen, bulging door panel and can probably do away with gluing up the protective plastic sheet over the door as was done at the factory.

The new backing cardboard from GAHH probably cost a couple of hundred dollars.  Not the end of the world if I end up not using them.  They will also make excellent templates to cut out the plastic versions.  Its a living nightmare to try and use old boards to do this.  Think inevitably never end up lining.

I am interested to see what you guys think about this and if anyone else has made cards out of plastic before.  Will sleep on this one before making any hard decisions.

Moved on from this little diversion and started stripping the old parts of the various layers of glue.  Its always an unpleasant messy task that take quite a long time to get right.  I would personally rather paint strip than glue strip!

[andyburns]

Went on this evening to further strip down the arm rests.  The full extent of the damage to both sides is now apparent.  I dont think they are available new any longer.  SLS are listing them as NLA and Buds dont even list them.

So I guess I am into another fiberglass repair job.  I think I will probably try and use a really strong epoxy glue to glue on the inside an aluminum rib or inert.  Then go over the top with a couple of layers of fiberglass.  Probably add a good 4mm of meat to the inside of it right along the mating surface that butts up against the door. 

Will then have to reduce the horse hair carefully by the same amount so it slots back in the plastic body.   Am quietely confident that I will be able to make it much stronger than it was at the factory.  Personally think the design is a bit flawed and that quite probably the majority of early 230's will have the same issue?  Again I am interested to here from anyone who has tackled this problem before.

Finished up with a final tidy up of all the ali panels.  Just need to sort out the door cards and fix these arm rest and I will be on the home straight.

We have a big car show here in NZ this coming weekend and I am fully worked up to try and get the car on the road for it.  Still waiting for some critical parts to get the clutch going but they are now only days away as well and then I am theoretically driving after bleeding up the clutch.  Will be a big day for me.

[mbzse]

Andy,
Just a little tip. In the recess marked in your picture here, a special plug fits see part 355 in the attached door assembly illustration
/Hans in Sweden

.

[andyburns]

Cheers Hans.  I was aware of the plugs.  I have left them off for the time being as I have to come back and adjust the door glass one last time when the soft top goes back on.  One of my plugs has also had it so sm ordering a new one from buds. Great spotting.

[Iconic]

Andy,
Thanks for your response regarding the rubber strips in the molding.
You brought up several good points that make sense and will help me out.
Thanks again.
Mark

[andyburns]

No worries Iconic.  A pleasure to help.

Today I embarked on the repair of the arm rests.  Started by removing all the layers of old glue to give me a better idea of how to tackle the job.  Decided to use Q Bond for the initial 'hold together' repair and then reinforce with two or three layers of fiberglass.

Using the Q Bond was a total pleasure.  Instant gratification and a very very strong initial repair.  Cant stop singing its praises.  I laid down a layer on the inside first.  Worked the powder into the cracks and then applied the setting agent.  Even after the first 5mm length went down the entire thing felt solid.

Repeated the process on the out side of the arm rest as well.  By the time I had finished it felt very solid and I almost consider just calling it quits and put the thing back together. 

Decided to resist the temptation and drove into town and purchased another small  fiberglass repair kit for 12 dollars.

Put down the first coat tonight.  I went a bit light on the hardner and its taking a while to go off.   Hopefully will be able to put another layer on tonight and trim it back in the morning ready for reassembly.

[andyburns]

Also cleaned up the pads tonight.  The last upholsterer glued 8mm of open cell foam to it.  Quite a mess to clean off.  Took an hour or so of plucking.  Nice and tidy ready to glue back into the repaired shells tomorrow. May have to trim a few mm off these to cater for the fiberglass build.

[andyburns]

Finished up the repairs to the arm rests today.  Have increased the wall thickness from 2mm to 8mm so hopefully they wont break again.  They certainly feel very solid and much heavier than stock.

Glued up the horse hair pads and then did a trial fit into the GAHH supplied cover.  It came up a bit baggy so I decided to cover the top face of the pad with open cell foam.  Worked a treat and the result looks spot on.

[andyburns]

Started thinking about the main door card this arvo.  I decided to just push ahead with normal rivets.  Found some small cup washers to use on the cardboard side to prevent the rivet pulling through the card.  When I took them off four or five of the factory rivets were on there way.  Hopefully I have come up with a good compromise.

[JamesL]

Andy
Every time I open this thread (daily) I am in awe of your skills. I am sure at times it feels like a lonely journey and that you feel like you are talking to yourself when you post in the thread but the work, descriptions and photos a simply amazing - both as a testament to your skill/dedication/inventiveness and as a record of how you're approaching your work which in turn will help others.

What you gonna do when it's finished?

[andyburns]

Hi James,  very very kind of you.  I dont however believe I am doing anything different than the hundred of talented members in here other than carefully documenting what I have done.  In fact half the stuff I have done I wonder what all the pro's in here think.  Can imagine I have caused quite a bit of eye rolling.  None of my efforts have been 'professional'.

Needless to say I am happy I have given you some degree of entertainment.  At the end of the day its what its all about isn't it?

I dont know what I am going to do when I finish the car.  One think I do know is that this is the last one.  I need to renovate our house which I have been putting off for quite some years due to car related projects.

I am half way through an automated entrance gate project which I need to finish.  I have been doing this for the past 6 months at the same time as the car.  Have done all the automation and software including full automatic plate recognition, anpr, that will open he gates when friends or family rock up.   My other projects are half the reason I am making such slow progress.

Also have a 1960's New Zealand Telecom phone box I purchased a few years back sitting on my front lawn.   Absolutely fantastic piece of NZ history.  Came complete with the original dial phone.  I want to restore it and get the phone operational.  Quite a neat place to retreat to and talk to a friend when the wife is getting on my case.

In any event I have quite a while before I have finished the 113.  Still have the hard and soft top to restore and I am expecting to take the engine or gearbox out due to some cock up I have made.

So I dont think you have quite seen the back of me yet 

Would love to get to know about all you guys a bit more as well.  I do feel quite lonely in here sometimes.  Would be fantastic to here more about everyone else.  I am very aware of how I babble on and what others might be thinking. 

I suggested to Peter that we start another main section dedicated to other projects members have on the go.  Think the people behind these cars are just as interesting as the cars themselves.   Sort of shows through with the popularity of the thread about members professions.

[mmizesko]

Andy,

Having "finished" my project last year (for now), I find myself quite adrift.  I am living vicariously by stopping by Joe Alexander's shop helping a little with his projects.  Guess I need to restore my single digit golf handicap next.  Either that or a 1958 Imperial.....

Keep up the good work, and let the rest of us be voyeurs into your project.

Mike Mizesko
Columbus, OH

[andyburns]

My parcel from Buds finally arrived with the clutch hose, heat shield and a few other bits and pieces.  Thought today would be the day that I could drive the car out of the garage.

Not to be.  Started well with the engine heat shield flying back on but when I went to fit the clutch hose and then bleed it I started to run into problems.  The clutch pedal is behaving quite oddly.  The first part of the travel of the pedal is ok and the clutch pedal spring is in compression so when the pedal is released it spring back to where it started.  But halfway through the travel the pedal seems to falcrum around a sort of turning point where the spring goes from compression into expansion toward the floor.  Net result you put your foot on the pedal and half way down the travel its shoots to the floor with a wack.  Dont know if this is normal or what I have done wrong.

The clutch bleeding was also a disaster.  I thought that once the clutch was bleed that the hydraulic resistance might counter my nasty little spring issue.  I just couldn't bleed it.  Bleed all the nipples but the master still has an empty feeling and is definitely not producing any significant hydraulic pressure.

After a couple of hours I gave up.


Decided that the brakes would give me no such ssues.  Out of the box the brake pedal felt as it should even without fluid in it.   Opened up the two rear nipples and let the fluid gravity bleed through.  Waiting a good half an hour until quite a bit of fluid has been moved through.  Wife patiently squirting the brake pedal under my guidance for an hour or so produce nada.  

Don't know how to tackle it now.  Suppose I need a back bleeder or some magic advice on technique.

Definitely wont be going to the show tomorrow.

[mbzse]

The clutch bleeding .../...  I just couldn't bleed it I gave up

You need to bleed the clutch system from underneath. Clutch pedal up (in resting position), go below and open nipple on slave cylinder and feed fluid in so that system fills from below. I do it by means of brake fluid into a pump oil can, its [cut] hose onto slave cylinder nipple and then lots of little pump strokes...
/Hans in Sweden

[GGR]

That spring system on the clutch pedal is to assist you overcome the pressure plate. It is adjustable but you can't adjust it until the system is bled.

The method described by Hans is the best one. But you first need to make sure that the piston in the master cylinder sits in its resting place (up). If the piston is on its way down it will obstruct the port connecting the master cylinder to the reservoir and you won't be able to bleed the system. There is a spring inside but the master cylinder may have ended up a bit sticky if not in use in the past couple of years. To make sure the piston is up you need to undo the pipe under the master cylinder and introduce a rod inside and push the piston up. I use a small allen key for that. Then you need to make sure that the rod connecting the pedal to the piston is correctly adjusted and that it is not pushing the piston down when the pedal is released. For this you need to feel a bit of play when you wiggle the rod after having pushed the piston up. If you can't feel that little play, adjust the ex-centered adjustment bolt on the pedal so that you can feel the play. Make sure the piston is fully up after adjusting.

Then reconnect every thing, and like Hans said, connect a hose between an oil can full of brake fluid and the opened bleeder on the slave cylinder and start pumping the oil can. When you see fluid reaching into the reservoir in the engine bay, tighten the bleeder and you should be done.

For the brakes, you should do only one wheel at the time. You start by the furthest from the master cylinder and you end by the closest. In your case you need to start with the rear left, then rear right, then front left, then front right.

[GGR]

Also, you have to make sure your clutch master cylinder is in perfect condition. If it isn't, it will start leaking from the top and you will end up ruining your new carpet and paint underneath.

[andyburns]

Thanks guys.  I have bleed quite a few systems in my day so am quite familiar with the drill.   GGR, started with the left rear (RHD) and couldn't get even a hint of fluid out of it.   Hans I hadn't yet thought of back bleeding the clutch.  Its such a short run that I thought it would have been a doddle to get fluid through it all with conventional methods.  My gear is now all brand new.  Clutch and Brake master and clutch slave so I shouldn't be having any difficulties unless its faulty from Buds.

I opened up all the rear brake bleeds today and waited for an hour to see if I could get something through via gravity.  Gravity, it appears, is frowning upon me today.  Am thinking of getting a fancy version of Han's brilliant oil can (which I dont have) and am looking at one of these from ali express http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hand-Brake-Bleeder-Tester-Set-Bleed-Kit-hand-Vacuum-Pump-Car-Motorbike-Bleeding-Bleeder-Set-Vacuum/32278168932.html

In the mail this morning I received my package from SLS containing my lower ali clips.  Coincidentally just as my back was starting to play up Accident Compensation kindly sent me a waist and back support which has made things much easier today.

A really good tip that Rodger passed on to me when dealing with SLS is that although they don't advertise it they are prepared to put small shipments in an A4 sized bubble wrap envelope and post untracked for 3 Euro.  Mine only took 5 working days to arrive so much better than out of the states, HK or England.  Also beats the hell out of paying 70 Euro for the same parcel tracked.  Still don't quite understand the disparity.

So in the absence of a brake and clutch helper, aka the very very lovely ball and chain,  I decided to fit up the remaining trim.  The clips came with no instruction so I used what I have read from in here.  I have read quite a few threads.  Quite a few opinion on how to do it.  Some use the white plugs some dont etc. 

The first thing that I figured out is that the two small wings on the side of the clip dont actually slip/clip under the molding two rails.  They infact just act as a buffer for the molding to press up against and hold it slightly off the paintwork.  All my original clips had their wings pulled off so I guess the last installer had the same confusion one way or another.

The second thing I sorted out is that the hole in the car should be 8mm in diameter or you will end up with a plug that doesn't fit, either to tight or loose.  Most of mine were fine.  I had to drill out a few tight ones and gently repaint the holes with etch to prevent further rusting.

One I sorted this I was flying.  The plugs are quite deceptive little creatures as well.  You really have to give them a good clout to knock them all the way home.  If you dont they wont have any effect and the plug could well pop out at some point.  I am wondering if this is where some members have come to the conclusion they are not necessary.

Fitting up the moldings is quite easy but a little never wracking.  Everything is symmetrical so you can decide to either initially hook the molding over the top or bottom of the clips.  What ever you choose you then have to come back and apply quite a bit of pressure to the opposite side of the molding to get it to click into place.  The clicking is actually just pushing the molding over the face of the clip.  There is bugger all holding it in place, probably a matter of half a millimeter on each side of the molding.

In the end my favored technique was to give the molding a quick and very controlled smack with my open palm.   

A big caveat is that before you start putting on the moldings make sure you check that there is no damage to the rails that the clips home on.  This is especially true in my case where the moldings were taken off by a novice... namely me.  An inexperienced remover may well pry of the trim and bend out the rails.  If they are not straitened carefully then you wont get the clips to sit right and probably end up bashing the trim hard enough to dent it.

I am really happy all my trim is back on.  Its second hand so not perfect.  A couple of pieces I will replace when I finally get the resources to do so.  But for the mean time its another thing accomplished.

[andyburns]

This evening I couldn't help myself.  I promised my wife I would stay away from the car and rest my back, which is playing up a bit after rolling under the car doing the brakes and clutch, but I got bored out of my tree reading and decided to sneak back in and do a couple of easy job.

Installed the new air filter tub seal.  My old one was almost disintegrated and as well as the tub top rattling around you could also here air being sucked in the sides.  The new seal was a bit tricky to get in.  Sits in a deep channel and you have to carefully stuff it in bit by bit.  I used a bit of CRC to help me along in the difficult patches. 

I made a huge difference and the unit is notably quieter.  Well spent money.

Moved back to my upholstery.  Decided to give one of the hard map pockets a try.  Got the worst one to practice on.  Its the passenger side and had heaps of dents.  Just goes to show that typically the driver cares much more about his/her car than the passenger!

I was going to put 3mm closed cell foam over it to hide the dents but decided to give panel-beating them out a go.  Used a very large socket as the dolly and gently fettled away until I was happy.   Worked really well and is now probably flatter than the drivers side.  So I decided to go ahead and glue up a test run of leather.  It came out so well I have decided to run with it.  Was quite tricky getting the very sharp angles on the bottom right.  You have to loose a lot of leather around these corners.  I started here where I could stretch the excess in all directions before things were tightened up.  It looks ever so slightly bunched in comparison to the stretched leather but that is to be expected.  No creases which is excellent.

Car show tomorrow.  Will be at least a couple of nice pagodas so I will take some pics for you guys. 

Back on to the job on Monday or if I get bored.

[JamesL]

Your wife is either a saint or she hates you....

[andyburns]

Probably a bit of both.   I must admit i wouldnt like to live with my clone.