Author Topic: Restoration Difficulty Level (Read 896446 times)

stickandrudderman · « **Reply #1200 on:** October 19, 2014, 07:08:32 »

Andy,
You should be able to blow through the cold start spray vale with compressed air. Once you have a clean one you will realise how easy it is to spot a blocked one!
In use Brunox on all of my cars.
Astonishing fact!
Years ago I experimented with engine parts plating: I gave my plater EVERYTHING, including fuel hoses, injectors and CSV solenoid.
Not only was everything OK but the injector spray pattern was perfect and the fuel hose rubber was black and less brittle! The only thing to be careful of is that things like the injectors, solid fuel pipes, CSV solenoid etc must be soaked in oil (or some other fluid) to stop them rusting inside. The plating process is very good at cleaning parts before plating them but that process leaves all of the internal surfaces of any complicated parts horribly exposed and parts that are not protected will be ruined if not installed and used straight away.

andyburns · « **Reply #1201 on:** October 19, 2014, 07:59:04 »

Cheers Stick. Guess I will have to start looking at the ultrasonic cleaning solution or the very thin wire. I don't like the idea of poking anything down these fine apertures in case something jams and then snaps off. Couldn't imagine that would likely be quite a terminal failure.

What I don't understand is how the car was starting so well with these being blocked. I haven't done anything to them that would have blocked them.

I am interested to wire it all up to a delivery pump and see it in action. I am also keen to film the atomization of the fuel from the jets as well and post it here for scrutiny. A short 10 second film or the like.

I also know what you mean about the internal surfaces not being protected with the plating process. I found that out some years ago with the hard pipe lines. I discussed it with the electroplaters and they pointed out that if the residual chemicals are not washed off reasonably quickly then damage to the coating results. I think its acid? When I get pipes back I immediately flush them with tap water. Also try and time it with the platers to pick up this sort of stuff as close as possible of it coming out of the final bath.

Stick do you not worry about all the chemicals somehow penetrating into the electrical guts of things like the solenoid. I would have thought if that happened it would completely ruin it, especially if acid were involved.

I put in the small diaphragm used to dampen the throttle linkage and it completely ruined it. The diaphragm was destroyed when I got it back. I assumed the soft plastic membrane probably melted somehow, either chemically or by the heat it was subjected to. There was still fluffy acid type of reaction around the center pin indicating that not all the chemical managed to escape.

Another component I have seen others coating and I have never had the guts to do is the atmospheric compensator that sits atop the injection pump. I know that from the factory that was gold plated. Given the couple of thousand dollars riding on that part I decided to paint with my trusty 'fiddly bits' gold enamel.

With something like the injectors I also just havn't been brave enough either to take the risk. I know the coating is only microns thick but with the high value stuff I am happy to carefully paint it. If the truth be known a couple of layers of paint, in my humble opinion, is probably much be protection than the gold plating. And where you really dont see the components, I am not that bothered with my cars as they will never be any where near contenders for fancy pants car shows.

I hope I haven't given away any of your trade secrets. If you use Burnox on all your cars then I know it must be good s@$%

RobSirg · « **Reply #1202 on:** October 19, 2014, 11:14:48 »

Thanks Andy / Stick,

Yes, 'Fiddly Bits' is a common brand here. I also intend sending everything to the platers except the expensive delicate parts, or where there are electrical components attached that are too trick to remove.
I didn't think I could send anything with rubber attached (such as fuel hoses) but it sounds as though Stick had no problem with that.

What do the platers do with the rubber components (Eg:hoses) they can't remove? Do they find a way to remove and reinstate, or somehow protect it from the plating process?

For what it's worth Andy - your work can easily hold it's own in those fancy pants shows

Rob

andyburns · « **Reply #1203 on:** October 19, 2014, 17:56:55 »

Rob, Stick is correct about the rubber not being harmed by the process. I have sent in all my hoses etc and they all come back absolutely mint. The dipping process is only done at about 70-80 degrees so nothing more than the hoses already take. As stick mentions the acid (or whatever chemical they use) only serves to give the rubber a really good clean and it comes back with an almost new feeling to it.

Parts that I can think off are the power steering hoses, all the fuel lines, the little rubber spindles that the air filter housing mounts to etc. So don't be afraid around these bits and pieces. Really rejuvenates them and will save you a lot of time effort and money.

The diaphragm I mentioned was destroyed probably had a thin plastic membrane which would be far more susceptible than rubber.

andyburns · « **Reply #1204 on:** October 20, 2014, 01:24:09 »

Next Mission

Decided to tackle the thinking around an issue which I have been dreading for a long time. The breather pipes that vent excess fumes out of the rocker cover and back into the inlet manifold. For some reason they are terribly rusted up inside. Probably because of the contents of the fumes that travel down them. I think I have tried in the past to replace them from the factory but they are NLA. If anyone has any spare or thinks they know where they can be obtained sing out.

Otherwise I am once again into re manufacture from ground level again.

I have measured the pipes to have an OD of 15mm and a wall thickness of around 1 to 1.5mm

I phoned around all the specialist pipe manufactures and suppliers here in Auckland and the closest I can get is 16mm OD at 1.2mm wall thickness. Fine for one of the pipes but the second is crimped into a special fitting which will require some CNC work or the like to make everything fit. All possible but just fiddly. I need to go an borrow some pipe benders again as well and then when its finished get it re plated. It all adds up! The pipe only comes in 5 meter lengths and its only 20 dollars. Have considered making them out of stainless but would be impossible to weld/braze it to the mild steel fitting.

Mmmm. Anyone else with any smart ides. If someone has access to EPC I would be interested to know if these parts are common with any of the other models. I have access to finnies and roundies which I am betting are my best choice???

Garry · « **Reply #1205 on:** October 20, 2014, 01:47:16 »

Andy,

I believe the breather pipes were available from SLS, have you tried them?

http://www.sls-hh-shop.de/en/230-280SL-W113/07-mech-Injection-Air-Intake/09-Air-Intake-and-Aircleaner/?force_sid=ickg4g433veeddjdql5bcnp7n6?_artperpage=10&listorderby=oxstock&listorder=desc

Garry

andyburns · « **Reply #1206 on:** October 20, 2014, 02:02:47 »

Hey Garry, thanks mate. Checked and SLS have neither in stock. If you click on the part you notice the stock levels are 0 and the add to cart button vanishes. Even if they had them they are listing at over 300 dollars plus shipping to get them here so am still on the lookout. One of the tow pipes is easy to bend up. Just that banjo one going to keep me up at nights.

Garry · « **Reply #1207 on:** October 20, 2014, 02:53:39 »

I believe they can get them if you get desperate and dont forget that you dont pay the VAT for export so take that off, not sure if it is 15 or 18%.

Garry

RobSirg · « **Reply #1208 on:** October 20, 2014, 04:47:03 »

Think it is actually 19% VAT Garry.

Andy - Thanks for the tip on the plating of components with Rubber attached.

Too bad about that diaphragm as I have same part - guess I will gold paint that one unless it can be successfully pulled apart and reconstructed

Rob

andyburns · « **Reply #1209 on:** October 22, 2014, 02:48:30 »

Picked up the 16mm mild steel tube to repair the breather pipes with. Only needed about one meter but it only came in 6m lengths. Discovered that the only bender I have available to me does not have a 16mm mandrel so I am a bit stuffed again. If you try and bend with the wrong shape mandrel you just end up folding the pipe. Also discovered that the factory radius is very very tight. Most mandrels work of a radius about four times the OD of the pipe so 16mm mandrel will bend to about 50mm radius. The factory pipe looks to be about 20-30mm so I may yet have to take it to a specialist and pay around 20 dollars a bend.

Moved on to the distributor which was all rusted up. Stripped it back and have taken all the small bolts off to be plated.

Used the wire brush on the bench grinder to pull the main dizzy body and the vacuum advance mech back to shiny steel. Gave both liberal coating of zinc POR15 metal ready coating and then painted up the vacuum unit. Will sort out the paint on the dizzy tomorrow. Only managing a few hours before I feel knackered.

andyburns · « **Reply #1210 on:** October 23, 2014, 00:39:54 »

Ordered a Pertronix hall effect electronic ignition today. Huge variation in price on the internet so it really pays to shop around. Quite hard case as all the most expensive ones on ebay are targeted at 113 owners and cost around 200US. The pertronix kit for my dizzy is used on quite a few other cars so a quick search on the part number and I had one ordered and shipped for 86USD.

Moved onto another irksome task. The first item I restored on the car was the radiator overflow tank. When I purchased the car it was leaking and before I took it off the road I stripped it down and soldered up the leak around one of the take off tubes. Painted and reinstalled. I was looking forward to putting it back on until I took it out of storage yesterday and discovered that the lower mounting arm had somehow broken off. Probably my rough handling at some point.

Nothing worse than having to unnecessarily start restoring parts for a second time.

Stripped all the paint back ready for the bead blaster tomorrow. Always think when your soldering to have perfectly clean surfaces to work with to get a strong bond.

Also trial fitted up my alternator. To finish it off I still need a couple of bushes that secure the adjustment arm to the motor. Will turn some Teflon bushes up on a lathe I think.

andyburns · « **Reply #1211 on:** October 29, 2014, 06:16:47 »

Managed to get the soldering on overflow tank sorted yesterday and the tank into the bead blaster. Even a couple of hours of light work is still exhausting. Struggled to get the epoxy primer on. Will pick up the next batch of gold plating tomorrow and start the assembly of the distributor.

andyburns · « **Reply #1212 on:** October 29, 2014, 18:31:08 »

In the next couple of days I am going to have a crack at sealing my rocker cover to the head. The importance of getting this job right is obvious and if you get it wrong you will be dragging all the linkage off the car again and again until the job has been done correctly.

I have a brand new rubber seal which is now fitted up to the correct sand cast rocker cover. These early covers seemed to have a thinner wall than the latter smooth equivalents. Am picking they ditched them as they all started breaking with customers claiming on factory warranties right left and center.

I have heard that the early ones are near on impossible to seal properly. The cover I have had to be repaired after a previous owner had over tightened the three securing bolts and cracked the cover to the rear of the engine. I think this is a common place for them to leak, and rather than pull the cover and replace the rubber seal the temptation was just to crank down on the nearest securing bolt.

I have heard of various ways to seal the covers. One technique was to run a thin bead of superglue between the head and the flat mating surface of the rubber. It sounded dubious to me but am prepared to try and technique that has been proved. Anyone got good ideas on this?

One think I do not want to do is use copious quantities of silicon or mastic type sealants that end up making their way into the engine.

I am also interested in the history of the early rough cast rocker covers and when they were phased out. Perhaps Achim with his incredible factory knowledge might know?

andyburns · « **Reply #1213 on:** October 30, 2014, 05:44:34 »

Picked up the latest batch of gold plating. Also blew a couple of coats of satin 2k black on the bits and pieces I prepped up yesterday. I have been experimenting with a new rapid dry hardner. It drys quicker but the finish doesn't seem as good as normal. I may end up sanding back the radiator overflow again. Started fitting up the diz this evening. A having problems remembering where all the fine screws go. I have a could of old 108 distributors kicking about for reference. Still also need to test the cold start valve and jets.

andyburns · « **Reply #1214 on:** November 02, 2014, 04:37:31 »

A Bad Day

Things tend to happen in 4 or 5's for me. Today everything seemed to implode for one reason or another. I started the day thinking I could reseal the rocker cover and push ahead toward getting the engine started. I have been dreaming of this moment for several months now. I started the day bristling with optimism.

This soon had the gloss taken off it when I discovered that my rocker cover was not wanting to come off the head. In a million years I wouldn't have thought it would have caused me any grief. It seems that there wasn't enough clearance with the strut that hold the bonnet lock mechanism. Almost as if the engine is too far back?? To facilitate the removal I took off the injection hard lines. Still no joy. To get the cover off you have to lift it high enough to clear all the head internals. I tried to roll is, rock it, vibrate it and even reverted to praying but nothing seemed to work. At a complete loss.

To rub salt into the wound while I studying the rocker cover problem I happened to glance over and notice that the new hot water stainless piping I bent up which should mate up with the newly painted radiator overflow tank was all askew. The angles are wrong. Will have to drag that out again, rebend, strip back to bare metal and then paint again. Mercury rising!

Just for the hell of it I decided while the injection pipes were out I would give them a blow out. 4 or 5 of the 7 lines are totally blocked. Cant move them with compressed air. I was sure I blew them out before I sent them off to be gold plated but I am quite possibly mistaken. If they still have sand in them from the sand blasting process then I am picking some pretty permanent type solid blockages might occur. Dont know what to do with them now. Options I have come up with : 1) try ultrasonic bath, 2) try and somehow force solvent through under massive pressure 3) throw them away and start again with another W108 set. None of these options are particularly appealing to me at this stage.

Thinking that things couldn't get any worse I then discovered a large O ring on the garage floor. Wondering what it was I went back over what I had recently put back on the car in the past week or so. I am not 100% certain but think its off the cold start sealing plate. When I put this back on I did wonder if there was an o ring but the plate did not have a recess to take one so I just sealed up the two mating surfaces with 3 Bond. Can anyone tell me if this is suppose to have a sealing ring?

All in all I think I have probably been put back a week or two (given my current impediments). Not a great day. Would be hugely appreciative if anyone can give me advice on the rocker cover removal, the blocked injection pipes and the O ring.

kampala · « **Reply #1215 on:** November 02, 2014, 06:42:51 »

Andy,

I can only advise on the rocker cover. Typically, when the rocker cover removal is hindered by the hood/bonnet lock mechanism, you would use a jack with a wood block under the engine/trans connection and jack up a little. I had read this advice from this forum and used it when mine did the same thing --- it absolutely worked for me. It's a common problem when a mount has weakened. I believe the advice was by Joe A. under the valve adjustment procedure.

Good luck on the other items.

andyburns · « **Reply #1216 on:** November 02, 2014, 06:57:02 »

Thanks for that advice Kampala. I will try it but would love to know which rubber is worn. I have brand new engine mounts and gearbox support mount. The sub frame mount were in great condition as well. I think I must have done something wrong. Prior to blowing my back I was working on the center bolt that secures the gearbox mount to the cross member plate. It seemed as if the main bolt may have also provided some adjustment. I didn't quite understand what I was doing with it and was in the process of pulling the mount back out to figure out how it worked. The car is sitting on its wheels now and the engine seem to have a bit of a lean with the front being higher than the back. Not in a position right now to get under the car so this side of it will have to wait. At least it gives me time to research and understand the problem before tackling it.

Jowe · « **Reply #1217 on:** November 02, 2014, 07:10:10 »

Yes, the o-ring should be there. See this link:

http://www.sls-hh-shop.de/230-280SL-R113/07-mech-Einspritzung-Saugrohr/07-a-Einspritzanlage/?force_sid=u3t99rnlau2pm1edcas64emhp3?_artperpage=10&listorderby=oxstock&listorder=desc

Johan

andyburns · « **Reply #1218 on:** November 02, 2014, 07:20:32 »

Awesome Jowe, thanks very much. Really appreciate your time. Just have to pull it all apart and reinstall. The rubber o ring is very flat so I may have to seek a replacement. Although even as it stands now with no oring I dont think its going to leak. Two down one to go. Just need to figure out now how to deal with these injection pipes. Once again thanks.

tel76 · « **Reply #1219 on:** November 02, 2014, 07:58:44 »

Hello Andy,
In my box of left over parts there is a pipe that is not from this 280sl that I am working on, it has the clip arrangement that you have on your pipe, if you are interested and it is the correct pipe you can have it (I did have it powder coated with the clip in situ), please let me know and I will send you a picture.

andyburns · « **Reply #1220 on:** November 02, 2014, 08:56:35 »

Thanks Eric, I may take you up on that but first I want to see if the two W108 pipe sets I have are identical. I am picking they will be bar the fuel line to the cold start valve. My gut feeling at the moment is that I have completely rooted this set of lines. Even if I manage to get air flowing there could well be residual sand stuck to the side walls which over time lets go and is washed into the injectors. I may try and see if I can put them in an acid bath as a last ditch attempt. We will see. I am interested in anyone who has made the same mistake before and if they managed to recover. Rodger has suggested putting a thing piece of wire in on the end of a drill. I will reserve judgment on this technique. I tried to get wire into it today but couldn't get it past the first acute bend. Nevertheless Rodger is a friggen guru with these things so I might just hand it over to him and see what happens.

stickandrudderman · « **Reply #1221 on:** November 02, 2014, 09:25:37 »

Believe it or not the fuel pipes are in fact a service item! It's in the BBB but I can't remember the details. I think it's something along the lines of every 60k they should be removed and have diesel run through them at high pressure in order to clean them out. II've never bothered and in 35 years I've never come across a blocked one.
The 108 ones are the same so you can just use those.
In another post I alluded to some injectors that I had plated years ago and then just left them in stock. When it came to using them they were scrap due to having seized irretrievably. The moral here is that when you get your metal parts back from the players always soak them in oil, diesel would be excellent, in order to protect them from corrosion until you need them.
An ultrasonic bath would probably solve your blocked lines but few people have one big enough.

andyburns · « **Reply #1222 on:** November 02, 2014, 18:22:09 »

Thanks Stick. I have been contemplating pulling an old 108 injection pump off the shelf and setting up a small single phase motor to power it and pump fluid through the lines. Would probably do the trick but an a huge amount of effort in comparison to starting again with a a good set of 108 pipes. I have a large ultrasonic batch available to me so may try this first. I am just so angry at myself for not blowing them out prior. I think drmb even warned me about this a couple of years ago. Just forgot or got distracted I guess.

Your advice about soaking the parts in diesel is a really really good one which I will be following in the future. In saying that I have promised myself and the family that the 113 is the last one.

andyburns · « **Reply #1223 on:** November 03, 2014, 21:08:21 »

Ignition Bliss

My 80 dollar pertronix unit turned up in the mail this morning. I had it mounted up within 10 minutes of it coming out of the box. They are so simple and easy to fit and there are very few external tell tale signs that one is even fitted which I really like. Most of the competing products require a clunky external square box.

Cant wait to actually see it working!

GGR · « **Reply #1224 on:** November 03, 2014, 21:21:36 »

Andy, Have you seen this discussion about the 123 distributor: http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=21324.0

If not, check it out, it may save you some issues.

News:

Author Topic: Restoration Difficulty Level (Read 896446 times)