Author Topic: Anyone with Pics of New Firewall Pads Installed?  (Read 18193 times)

Jordan

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Anyone with Pics of New Firewall Pads Installed?
« on: December 30, 2011, 15:45:24 »
I am getting ready to remove my old pads and was wondering if anyone has installed the new firewall pads as yet?  If so did you change the colour, and did you use colours suggested by Alfred or try something different?  How did you glue the pads to the firewall, with a spray or glue applicator?  Did you try the method suggested by Dan using wax paper?  Any finally does anyone have anypictures of the final product?  Many thanks.
Marcus
Marcus
66 230SL  Euro 4 speed

Jordan

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Re: Anyone with Pics of New Firewall Pads Installed?
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2012, 12:34:30 »
Happy New Year.  ;D ;D  I hope everyone had a safe and enjoyable holiday season.

Well, I have removed the old pad and all the glue and painted the new pads as suggested by Alfred.  I used a plastic scraper that you can get at paint supply stores for removing the pad and helping to remove the foam and glue.  Worked really well and did not scratch the paint.  Can anyone recommend a glue for the new pad?  This will probably get done in the next week or so.
Thanks
Marcus
Marcus
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thelews

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Re: Anyone with Pics of New Firewall Pads Installed?
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2012, 15:27:43 »
3M always makes great products and a heat resistant spray adhesive would probably be the way to go.
Enjoy some pictures at this link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8292359@N06/sets/72157603240571101/show/

John - Wisconsin
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual #1543
1961 190 SL 23K miles
1964 Porsche 356
1970 Porsche 911E
1991 BMW 318is
1966 Jaguar XKE
1971 Alfa Romeo GTV 1750

Peter h

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Re: Anyone with Pics of New Firewall Pads Installed?
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2012, 15:46:28 »
I  have take this cleaner to remove the old glue. Works perfect  http://autoreparatur.3mdeutschland.de/3m-autoreparatursysteme/reinigen/oberflaechen-reiniger/klebstoffreiniger

I will take the MB glue but I must look for the part number later.
I take a picture if all work is done.

Peter
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Jordan

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Re: Anyone with Pics of New Firewall Pads Installed?
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2012, 16:41:16 »
Peter, I used a 3M general purpose adhesive remover in a spray can to get the glue off.  Had to spray it a couple of time to get it all off.  I look forward to your pictures.

John, I am concerned that a spray glue will not give enough adhesion to the felt backing.  Because the spray is so fine and thin it will only glue the very outside of the felt and that gravity will work on the pad over time, causing it to eventually sag.  Does 3M make a thikcer type spray that might soak into the felt a bit or perhaps applying a liberal amount of the spray directly to the felt backing?  I have used the spray for other applications, like the plastic behind the door panels but it is so thin and runs easily.
Marcus
66 230SL  Euro 4 speed

66andBlue

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Re: Anyone with Pics of New Firewall Pads Installed?
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2012, 17:37:24 »
.....  Because the spray is so fine and thin it will only glue the very outside of the felt and that gravity will work on the pad over time, causing it to eventually sag.  .....
Marcus,
after having discussed the felt (jute/foam) issue at length with many different people I am quite confident that felt separation - or sagging as you call it - will not be a problem. This is a synthetic automotive needle punched felt that is very difficult to tear apart and gravity will not be enough. You would not want to use a glue with solvent that penetrates into the felt and causes the strands to separate because of a change in the physical and mechanical characteristics.
3M Super Trim Adhesive - it sprays a net-like pattern on the surface - works well but you'll need to tape off any areas that are visible since clean up can be messy.
A brush-on contact cements works well also and it is easier to keep it away from areas that remain visible:
http://www.amazon.com/25310-Pt-Gel-Contact-Cement/dp/B0006MUPXO
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

Jordan

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Re: Anyone with Pics of New Firewall Pads Installed?
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2012, 23:42:05 »
Thanks Alfred.  I think I'll go with the contact cement, if for no other reason than it will make me feel better.  ;D ;)
Marcus
66 230SL  Euro 4 speed

Richard Madison

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Re: Anyone with Pics of New Firewall Pads Installed?
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2012, 01:00:07 »
This long New Years weekend, I completed installation of the new firewall pad.

Alfred has been helpful with suggestions but I learned quite a bit as I went along.

The car is a 1969 Tunis Beige, Euro version, LHD.

The previous firewall covering was not a pad. It was like the material used to waterproof the inside of a door…thin, black material with no padding…probably on the car for 5 or 10 years.

The old, nasty covering was glued to the firewall with a black tar-like substance that was extremely difficult to remove…even after multiple application of adhesive remover and many hours of scraping, the surface was left fairly smooth but not really clean. The original pad is the first photo, the ugly left over “tar” is in the second photo.

3M Adhesive Remover (product number 03618 or 3618) was used to remove the old covering and adhesive. The remover did the job fairly well but hands got full of black scrapings and bits of tar. Plastic gloves helped keep off some of the black stuff.

The installation of the new pad was done with all hoses, etc. attached so the new pad had to be cut to fit over the three small cables coming through the wall on the driver side…and cut to get past the hose on the left side. Had to extend the thin pre-cut slot for the small bracket near the hood locking mechanism. The pre-cut slot did not allow the pad to get close enough to the top of the firewall until the slot was extended down.

The car is a Euro model with a Firewall Data Plate…had to cut the hole for the  Plate. This hole is pre-cut into the fiber pad but is not cut into the top pad. My Data Plate was wider than the pre-cut hole which had to be widened in both the top and bottom pads. It was a bit of a chore to cut the fiber pad as its fibers seem to lean away from the razor blade…took extra effort to get clean cuts.

To install the new pad, I wanted to use a brush on for better application control. I considered using Contact Adhesive by DAP. I called DAP and asked if “bonds upon contact” means no “work time” to move the pad. DAP said that contact was instant and suggested I call 3M

3M said the job seemed similar to gluing a pad to the bottom side of a hood. 3M recommend a non-contact adhesive with about 5 minutes working time. The product as 3M Super Trim Adhesive, product 08090 or 8089. It is sold in auto parts stores, not houseware or hardware stores.

The 3M product is sprayed on, not brushed on. This meant taping hoses and areas near the firewall to keep the spray off the unwanted places. A photo shows the taping.

The 3M adhesive allows a few minutes of movement. I positioned the pad as well as I could, bending down and around the hoses and other fittings, making minor corrections as I want along…working carefully but quickly. When it was in position and looked OK,  I used a 3 inch flat meat pounder to press the pad to the body and avoid bulges.

I’m satisfied with the way it came out. While the new pad might not be up to concours standards, it looks a lot better than what was on the car before as you can see from the last photo. I hope you agree that the effort justified the several weekends of work.

And thanks again to Alfred and the others for making this possible.

Richard M NYC  
« Last Edit: January 02, 2012, 10:33:32 by 280SL71 »
1969 280 SL, Tunis Beige, Euro Model (Italy).

Jordan

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Re: Anyone with Pics of New Firewall Pads Installed?
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2012, 01:57:01 »
Richard, great photographs and a great play by play.  That is some scary looking stuff under the old pad.  The new one looks great.  Thanks also for the heads up on the data plate hole.  I'll get that cut out to size before I glue the pad in place.  I had removed the plate temporarily so I'll make sure it goes back on before the pad.  Your experience with the 3M spray is giving me a rethink.  I like the idea that you have a few minutes to reposition if it is out a bit, especially the larger piece.  Did you spray both the firewall and pad or just the firewall?  I'm wondering if you just spray the pad you don't need to do all that taping, or maybe it is not enough to get good adhesion.
Thanks for sharing your experiences and photographs.
Marcus
Marcus
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Richard Madison

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Re: Anyone with Pics of New Firewall Pads Installed?
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2012, 10:18:16 »
Marcus:

The 3M instructions require three sprays in different directions on both surfaces. They want complete coverage on the pad and on the firewall. I suspect part of the holding power comes from the adhesive sticking to itself on each surface.

The spray can has a small odd looking white plastic nozzle to give the proper spray pattern. Do not remove this tiny piece. The spray comes out as a fairly sticky, thick liquid that covers almost like a spider web. This is good as it does not seep into the under fiber pad but stays on the surface.

There is some "working time" but once the pad and the surface contact, the pad is not easily moved..it is not slippery. The two surfaces stick upon contact with a fairly strong gummy consistency.  Part of the pad, maybe a flap or corner, can be pulled away and moved slightly. In case of a complete mis-position, I think the entire pad could be removed if pulled off almost immediately. This gave me more comfort than an instant bonding contact cement with no chance of correction. Part of the pad could be kept away from the surface while making corrections by inserting a few chopsticks or similar dowels around the edges but I didn't do this.

After spraying, the adhesive is supposed to dry for at least 5 minutes. I guess if you installed the pad before the 5 minutes, the pad would be easier to push around but I don't know if the adhesive will dry and cure properly if it does have its 5 minutes of air drying. As soon as the two surfaces touch, they stick but allow some pulling away to re-position.

If you spray when the pad is laying on some newspaper, be careful not to move the pad on the paper while the glue is drying as the over sprayed paper will stick to the pad and you'll have a firewall pad with the yesterdays news on it.

I had to move the pad a bit for a better fit around the hoses and to get a better position next to the upper firewall. While running my meat pounder over the pad, I saw a part that had formed an air bump that would not go away.  I pulled the edge of the pad away, gave it a shot of adhesive, then taped the edge to the surface for about 10 minutes. The bump was gone and all seemed to be OK. A true instant bonding contact cement may make it difficult or impossible to fix an air bump.

Richard M, NYC
1969 280 SL, Tunis Beige, Euro Model (Italy).

Peter h

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Re: Anyone with Pics of New Firewall Pads Installed?
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2012, 08:24:28 »
Thanks Richard
I hope i get time to try it next week.
Peter
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Jordan

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Re: Anyone with Pics of New Firewall Pads Installed?
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2012, 00:35:27 »
Just wanted to follow up now that I had installed my new firewall pad.  Below are pictures of before, during and after.  I used the same glue Richard did and applied maybe 3 coats to each surface before glueing it down.  The colder it is the longer it takes the glue to set but the firewall pad is also stiffer.  I would recommend anyone else doing this to mark and punch holes for the coolant tank bracket screws that go into the firewall.  I thankfully did this otherwise I would have been searching for the holes with a pin.  Best to cut a small hole if you are confident in the position.  Mark it on the felt pad first before pasting it to the firewall pad.  I also replaced the firewall grommets within the area of the pad.  I started with the smaller of the two pads to get some confidence.
Marcus

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49er

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Re: Anyone with Pics of New Firewall Pads Installed?
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2012, 03:49:39 »
Wow! What a difference! looks great.

John
1969 280SL 003820
Un Restored, All Original, including the paint
Original Owner, Purchased September 18, 1968
4 speed manual, PS. 77217 miles
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badali

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Re: Anyone with Pics of New Firewall Pads Installed?
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2012, 14:40:15 »
Nice job!!
Brad

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66andBlue

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Re: Anyone with Pics of New Firewall Pads Installed?
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2012, 16:55:14 »
Well done indeed!
What did you use to paint it black?
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

Jordan

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Re: Anyone with Pics of New Firewall Pads Installed?
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2012, 18:40:20 »
Thank you John and Brad for your comments.  It certainly looks better than it did and I don't have to worry about any more pieces flaking off.

Alfred, I used the spray paints you recommended.  I put on 5 or 6 light coats of Duplicolor HVP106 (I used this instead pf HVP104 so I could control how glossy it would look) first and then 2 coats of Duplicolor DA1603.  I laid the pads on some cardboard and then started each spray pass on the cardboard before passing over the pad.  Each coat dried very quickly so I was able to finish it all in a day and a half.  I gave it about an hour between coats.  I sprayed them before putting on the felt backing so as not to get paint on the felt along the edges.
Marcus
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pj

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Re: Anyone with Pics of New Firewall Pads Installed?
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2012, 19:36:51 »
Marcus and everyone,
now that there's some collective experience here on the forum with the new pads, I can ask my question. I've just spent a ton of money on letting Dan rebuild my engine and I don't want to splurge on having the engine bay repainted for a while. Do you think I should install the new pad now anyway ('cause yours sure looks great) or should I just keep it on the shelf for a year or 2 until I have the money to do the whole engine bay properly?

Peter J
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thelews

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Re: Anyone with Pics of New Firewall Pads Installed?
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2012, 19:39:34 »
Do you think I should install the new pad now anyway ('cause yours sure looks great) or should I just keep it on the shelf for a year or 2 until I have the money to do the whole engine bay properly?



Wait
Enjoy some pictures at this link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8292359@N06/sets/72157603240571101/show/

John - Wisconsin
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual #1543
1961 190 SL 23K miles
1964 Porsche 356
1970 Porsche 911E
1991 BMW 318is
1966 Jaguar XKE
1971 Alfa Romeo GTV 1750

66andBlue

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Re: Anyone with Pics of New Firewall Pads Installed?
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2012, 19:55:53 »
Wait until the engine bay is ready.
But do NOT wait so long to assemble the pad, glue the two parts together now for storage since the pressure sensitive adhesive on the felt has a limited shelf life.  It is also easier to reposition the parts if necessary when the ambient temperature is on the cool side.
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

Peter h

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Re: Anyone with Pics of New Firewall Pads Installed?
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2012, 12:41:58 »
Today i install the firewall pad.
When you glue both sides, you must be very quick and you have only one chance

Thanks all

Peter
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49er

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Re: Anyone with Pics of New Firewall Pads Installed?
« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2012, 16:41:12 »
Hello Peter,
 Your pad installation looks very good. Must have been a lot of work but well worth the effort! I still check the Mosel webcams from time to time and it brings back happy memories of our visit last September:-)

John
1969 280SL 003820
Un Restored, All Original, including the paint
Original Owner, Purchased September 18, 1968
4 speed manual, PS. 77217 miles
7280 miles since awoken from her 20+ yr "nap" in 2010

Peter h

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Re: Anyone with Pics of New Firewall Pads Installed?
« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2012, 16:56:16 »
Hallo John


lot of work starts here 1 week ago at the hotel. Must be finish end of April
My pagoda is sleeping since X-Mas. I hope end of February she runs.

Peter
08.68 280sl automatic white 717 G  blue MB Tex
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49er

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Re: Anyone with Pics of New Firewall Pads Installed?
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2012, 17:07:55 »
Hello Peter, That does look like a big project that you are doing at your Hotel. It must be difficult to do in the winter months. Good Luck and send a photo when completed.

John 
1969 280SL 003820
Un Restored, All Original, including the paint
Original Owner, Purchased September 18, 1968
4 speed manual, PS. 77217 miles
7280 miles since awoken from her 20+ yr "nap" in 2010

john.mancini

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Re: Anyone with Pics of New Firewall Pads Installed?
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2012, 14:37:25 »
The new firewall pad looks great. I can't see much difference (from the photos) when compared to the originals. I have a good photo of my original firewall pad on Featured Cars, March, 2008. One photo shows my 1969 Horizon Blue engine compartment. There are only 44,000 original miles on that engine compartment. It has never been altered. Check it out. The original firewall pad on my car looks identical to the new reproductions. Great job!!
John
John
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Jonny B

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Re: Anyone with Pics of New Firewall Pads Installed?
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2012, 00:45:51 »
With great assistance from the Pad-Meister (aka 66andblue) the new pads have been installed on my 250 SL. The old pad came out quite easily, and the 3M spray adhesive cleaner worked very nicely to clean off the firewall. After much taping, and a bit of adjustment to the pad, it is now in place! No blood was spilt and no invectives were uttered. It was a bit cool here in SoCal today, and there are just a couple of edges, not seen in the photo, that need a bit more adhesive. I have a tube of 3M adhesive to use for those touch ups. I elected to not take the temperature and oil sending lines out, so I also had to make a small cut in that portion of the pad right below those lines. I did need to change a well worn heater coolant hose, so I drained the radiator and pulled those lines out to make for easier installation. I also unhooked the hood catch and the neutral safety switch, which I would highly recommend, and are not at all difficult to take out and put back.

Note - to give a bit of gloss we used some black shoe polish.
Jonny B
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1970 280 SL Auto, DB 904
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