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Pagoda SL Group  |  W113 Pagoda SL Group  |  Drive train, fuel, suspension, steering & brakes  |  Topic: Servo or no servo in 230 SL? Advanced search
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Locked Topic Topic: Servo or no servo in 230 SL?  (Read 2406 times)
« on: October 13, 2010, 11:09:59 »
Ulf
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Location: Denmark, Fredericksberg, Frederiksberg
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This question is so stupid, that I seriously considered creating an alias before asking it - but while sifting through the various papers that came with the car I came across the sale materials from the dealership in San Diego that sold the car to the owner before me. It states that my car is equipped with servo assisted steering - if this is the case, it must be the worst servo in the world as the steering is extremely heavy making parking a bit of a work-out for my biceps. So the question is - do I have a non-functional servo pump or was that dealer merely exaggerating the specs?

In the tech manual the option code for servo assisted steering is 422, but where would this number be on the data card as I can't find it?
Or could someone please post a photo of the servo parts in the engine bay so I can compare them with my engine bay?

Best regards

Ulf
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1965 230 SL in silver (DB180)
1984 230E (w123) also silver
1982 Land Rover Series III SWB
BMW 520i (daily driver - also silver!)
 
Reply #1
« on: October 13, 2010, 11:52:20 »
Larry & Norma
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The power steering pump, if you have one, is below the distributor and driven by a belt from the crankshaft pulley.
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Larry Hall (Gnuface)
2005 C230
2006 SL350
1970 280SL
 
Reply #2
« on: October 13, 2010, 15:17:24 »
al_lieffring
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look for a power steering fulid resivior between the distributor and the injection pump.
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66 230SL
 
Reply #3
« on: October 13, 2010, 16:56:47 »
Naj
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Pic for ID

naj


* 230StgPump&Resevoir.jpg (69.5 KB, 640x427 - viewed 139 times.)
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68 280SL
 
Reply #4
« on: October 13, 2010, 21:54:23 »
114015
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Quote
In the tech manual the option code for servo assisted steering is 422, but where would this number be on the data card as I can't find it?

Hello Ulf,


You can't oversee if you have a power steering assembly in your car. Look for the reservoir (as the others indicated), the oil pump and the oil hoses (see Naj's pic).
Maybe your belt was removed once in the past or even the whole oil pump. The steering gear box works (should work) nicely without servo pump if the oil circuit is closed. The power steering gear box is about twice as large as the manual steering gear box.
It is also possible that the whole assembly was once replaced by a manual steering because of leaking problems that the former "experts" could not sea adequatelyl. Shocked Shocked

You'll find the "422" in the box with the numbering "42" on the top row of your data card. If the field contains the "2" (i.e. 42/2 or just abbreviated listed as 422), you had/have the power assisted steering.
If it's empty or says "-" - sorry, no power steering.

Best,
Achim







* servo_bottom_up.pdf (32.77 KB - downloaded 72 times.)
* servo_right_side.pdf (31.79 KB - downloaded 45 times.)
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Achim
(Germany)
 
Reply #5
« on: October 14, 2010, 08:36:03 »
Ulf
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Data card says "-" in the column marked 42, so I guess the salesman was just lying to the former owner - and I who thought that used-car dealers were among the most trustworthy of people  Grin

But thanks for your help!

Ulf
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1965 230 SL in silver (DB180)
1984 230E (w123) also silver
1982 Land Rover Series III SWB
BMW 520i (daily driver - also silver!)
 
Reply #6
« on: October 14, 2010, 14:14:02 »
Ulf
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Update - no servo pump or reservoir under the hood either, but are there any tricks to make the steering a bit lighter?

Ulf
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1965 230 SL in silver (DB180)
1984 230E (w123) also silver
1982 Land Rover Series III SWB
BMW 520i (daily driver - also silver!)
 
Reply #7
« on: October 14, 2010, 14:36:10 »
JamesL
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You could try power steering Grin
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James L
RHD 280 in DB906 with cognac leather
 
Reply #8
« on: October 14, 2010, 17:59:24 »
stickandrudderman
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WWW

Retro-fitting power steering is common but surprisingly the lower steering column is different so the change is not as straight forward as you might think.
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Reply #9
« on: October 14, 2010, 19:26:38 »
waqas
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Update - no servo pump or reservoir under the hood either, but are there any tricks to make the steering a bit lighter?

Ulf

Most likely, your tie-rod ends (ball-joints) are shot. When I replaced mine, I thought I'd just installed power-steering (or bigger biceps!)
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Waqas (Wa-kaas) in Austin, Texas
 
Reply #10
« on: October 15, 2010, 12:07:00 »
Ulf
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Thanks Waqas - could you pls point it out to me in this exploded diagram: http://www.niemoeller.de/w113-en/B042-460.html

Best regards

Ulf
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1965 230 SL in silver (DB180)
1984 230E (w123) also silver
1982 Land Rover Series III SWB
BMW 520i (daily driver - also silver!)
 
Reply #11
« on: October 15, 2010, 14:41:56 »
waqas
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Well, the figure you linked to only shows the center drag-link (bottom left), which is usually ok (but may need to be replaced): 120 (D46-373)

The tie-rod ends are found in this diagram (top right): http://www.niemoeller.de/w113-en/B042-331.html
They are numbered 91 (C33-128) and 92 (C33-129), although I can't seem to locate them in the price list. The price list has only one ball-joint listed (91), and refers to yet another part number (C33-126).

You can either replace the individual toe-rod ends, or replace the complete tie-rod assembly: comes with the tie-rod itself, a pair of ball-joints, and a pair of clamps. There is a tie-rod assembly on each side, left and right. Each tie-rod has a pair of ball-joints attached (also referred to as the tie-rod ends): one with left-hand (L.H.) thread, and the other with right-hand (R.H.) thread. So in total, you'll need a pair of L.H. ball-joints, and a pair of R.H. ball-joints. Removal is done by first removing the castle nuts (and cotter pins if installed), and then using a ball-joint puller to remove the tie-rods. Once the clamps on each end of each tie-rod are loosened, the tie-rod ends can be unscrewed off the tie-rod. This step usually requires a pair of pipe wrenches. Installation is the reverse of removal.

You will need to get your car aligned after replacing the ball-joints. In order to get an approximate alignment so you don't drive off the road on your way to the alignment shop, count the number of rotations needed to remove each ball-joint. Install the new ball-joints with the same number of rotations. This is also known as "counting threads". Remember: there are LH and RH threads, so they rotate in opposite directions.

In the past, I've actually found the number of threads on each side to be grossly unbalanced (much more on one side of a tie-rod than on the other). In this case, I simply count the total number of threads for each rod; divide that between the two ball-joints, and then proceed with installation. This gives an excellent starting point for the alignment technician.

Hope this all helps.
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Waqas (Wa-kaas) in Austin, Texas
 
Reply #12
« on: October 15, 2010, 15:36:28 »
Ulf
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It helps a lot, Waqas - will this complete assembly do it or do I just heed the heads at each end - German Fleabay is swarmed with offers like this:
 http://cgi.ebay.de/Spurstange-MERCEDES-8-W114-W113-Pagode-W115-vorn-NEU-/290403104693?pt=Autoteile_Zubehör&hash=item439d5fb7b5#ht_4109wt_1091

Have a nice weekend!

Ulf
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1965 230 SL in silver (DB180)
1984 230E (w123) also silver
1982 Land Rover Series III SWB
BMW 520i (daily driver - also silver!)
 
Reply #13
« on: October 15, 2010, 15:46:08 »
graphic66
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Also make sure your tire pressure is correct. It can help with the steering effort some.
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Reply #14
« on: October 15, 2010, 15:57:55 »
Ulf
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Graphi66 - the tire pressure is 2,2 and the tires are 205/14 Tiger Paws (which is slightly wider than normal, which might explain a little of the heavy steering, but not all of it)

Ulf
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1965 230 SL in silver (DB180)
1984 230E (w123) also silver
1982 Land Rover Series III SWB
BMW 520i (daily driver - also silver!)
 
Reply #15
« on: October 15, 2010, 16:59:22 »
waqas
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It helps a lot, Waqas - will this complete assembly do it or do I just heed the heads at each end

The ball-joint ends are all you really need, but some people think that installing just the ends is more work. I disagree, as you still need to remove the old ends to count the threads, making the amount of work the same (unless the car can also be aligned immediately). This way, you also get to keep your original rods and clamps.

German Fleabay is swarmed with offers like this:
 http://cgi.ebay.de/Spurstange-MERCEDES-8-W114-W113-Pagode-W115-vorn-NEU-/290403104693?pt=Autoteile_Zubehör&hash=item439d5fb7b5#ht_4109wt_1091

That might work, but it looks like there's a clamp only on one end. The other end has a nut of some sort. Before you buy this, make sure this will fit your car. Be forewarned that the quality of parts sold on fleabay varies greatly. The marginal cost (Euros 10-20) of going with a reputable supplier is worth knowing that the parts will be good quality (made by Febi, etc), and last many more years. Take a look through our supplier page: http://www.sl113.org/wiki/Suppliers/Start

If you were in the US, I'd recommend these: 0003385210 (RH thread), 0003385010 (LH thread)

Keep in mind that there is a tie-rod on each side of the car, right and left.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2010, 17:08:30 by waqas » Logged

Waqas (Wa-kaas) in Austin, Texas
 
Reply #16
« on: October 16, 2010, 21:47:29 »
Benz Dr.
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Get a piece of wood ( 2 X 4 ) and pound a nail into it near one end. Place your old removed tie rod assembly on top of the board and push it up against the nail so that the tie rod end is resting firmly on the nail.
Take another nail and mark the other end of the tie rod assembly on the piece of wood. Pound the nail in a little bit at that mark and place the tie rod between the nails. Move the nail in or out so that the tie rod assembly will just slide through. Pound the nail in a bit more so it can't move and adjust the nail to fit if needed.

I use completely new assemblies so that everything will adjust easily. Adjust the new tie assembly so that it will just slide through between the two nails. This method is very close as long as the original part was adjusted correctly. If the car pulls to the right or left you can move the setting slightly. It should be good enough to drive to the alignment shop and in some cases I never did get it done ( on my own sedan ). The 107 assembly is interchangeable with a 113.
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1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn, K&K dealer since 1989, benzbarn@kent.net, +1 877 661 6061, +1 519 677 5939
 
Reply #17
« on: October 18, 2010, 15:03:16 »
Ulf
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Dan - you're quite the MacGyver of automotive fiddling, I'll pass your description on to my mechanic once the ball-joints arrive  Wink
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1965 230 SL in silver (DB180)
1984 230E (w123) also silver
1982 Land Rover Series III SWB
BMW 520i (daily driver - also silver!)
 
Reply #18
« on: October 18, 2010, 19:34:46 »
rogerh113
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Hi,

I have a non power steering 230SL, and actually prefer it that way.  The only real issue is when the car is at an absolute standstill.  My 'trick' is to get just a bit of motion prior to steering.  Either backing up or going forward, just a bit of motion in the direction the wheels are currently in will allow a MUCH easier steering motion.  If you can't get any motion, it can be a bit rough.  Rare is the case when I can't get the car rolling a bit before I start steering.  I imagine that this approach also reduces the load on the entire steering mechanism, so probably good for the care of the car anyways.

Regards -- Roger
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1966 230SL black 4 speed (250 low compression engine)
 
Reply #19
« on: October 19, 2010, 01:10:34 »
J. Huber
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I'm with Roger on this one. I have driven a few power-steering 113s and while they felt good -- I like the tighter feel of my manual steering. It is true that in an almost-stopped situation, you have to use some arm strength, but most other times it is fine. I have replaced the shocks, sub-frame mounts and am running a set of decent Michelins -- all of which improved handling, steering and braking.
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James
63 230SL
 
Reply #20
« on: October 19, 2010, 14:34:04 »
Ulf
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I agree - have no plans to convert to power steering, but it's just that it's REALLY heavy when parking - even for a 200 pound / 6 ft + guy like me ;-)
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1965 230 SL in silver (DB180)
1984 230E (w123) also silver
1982 Land Rover Series III SWB
BMW 520i (daily driver - also silver!)
 
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